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Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://masto.ai/@Pineywoozle" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@pineywoozle ‘s #3WordNote</a> In my defence, I don't post cat photos or social media screenshots. I post either renderings from extremely obscure 3-D virtual worlds or memes about similarly obscure topics. Either way, extensive explanations are necessary for people to understand my image posts. And in the case of the renderings, so are detailed visual descriptions because I cannot rely on anyone knowing what anything in my images looks like. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/95b6e36d-7fcd-4791-8cc1-c93e8b9975a3" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">I have very good reasons for writing such extremely long image descriptions.</a> And I can reassure you that <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/1e63be04-d96e-412a-ab47-aff18c5f9ad8" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">I've learned more than a thing or two about describing images and writing alt-texts for the Fediverse</a> over the last few years. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/wiki/jupiter_rowland/How(20)to(20)describe(20)images(20)in(20)the(20)Fediverse/Home" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">I'm even working on a wiki about this topic.</a> The eight hours that I've mentioned led to 20,000 characters of image description for two images. These 20,000 characters went into the post text body, not into the alt-texts. The extra hour was for cutting alt-text descriptions down from these 20,000 characters in addition to these 20,000 characters in the post text. The alt-text of each image contains a little under 1,000 characters of description + a bit over 500 characters which announce the long descriptions in the post and explain how to find them. This means that each image is described twice. In case you can't imagine what I'm talking about: <a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/item/b6ae326a-c207-46dd-836b-6bc2b6a3509c" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">This is the post in question.</a> (You'll have to click on the summary to see the post, then scroll down to the content warning spoiler tag way down the post and then click it to see the images.) Also, it doesn't matter whether the majority of users may or may not need such a long description. Someone somewhere out there may actually need it, I can see why they may need it, and I've actually been thanked for even longer descriptions by people who needed them, if only a few times. I will continue writing such long image descriptions as long as I don't have rock-solid written proof that the majority of Fediverse users is staunchly and decidedly against long image descriptions in posts, no matter how obscure and at the same time curiosity-inducing the topic may be, and not only because they're against posts that exceed 500 characters. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mitra.social/users/silverpill" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">silverpill</a> @<a href="https://fediscience.org/@tfardet" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Tanguy Fardet</a> Besides, not everything in the Fediverse works like Mastodon anyway. I'm on Hubzilla which is basically the exact opposite of Mastodon. Hubzilla does not support Mastodon-style starter packs, but it has a feature of its own that can serve as something similar: channel sources. You can select certain contacts of yours and have everything they post automatically reposted on your channel. So the trick is to create a new channel ("account" on Mastodonish, only that it isn't a new account because it shares the same login with the channel that you already use; it's a new, fully independent identity on the same account/login). You follow a bunch of Fediverse actors. You choose them as channel sources. And when someone else follows that new channel, they automatically receive all content from these channel sources. They can also choose to explicitly follow some of these Fediverse actors themselves. I'd really like to see Mastodon users try to keep me from a) following their accounts and b) making their accounts channel sources. (By the way: Hubzilla users can keep other Hubzilla users from using their channels as channel sources. It's one out of many permission settings.) #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=StarterPack" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">StarterPack</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=StarterPacks" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">StarterPacks</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ChannelSources" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ChannelSources</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://fediscience.org/@tfardet" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Tanguy Fardet</a> @<a href="https://mitra.social/users/silverpill" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">silverpill</a> If this ends up in a FEP. Which I wouldn't count on. And even then, the FEP is likely to assume that literally the entire Fediverse either works like Mastodon or is utterly simple in functionality. And it's likely to cause headbutting with a certain developer who has created Fediverse software that's very powerful, very feature-rich and very, very much unlike Mastodon, several years before Mastodon. Because the Mastodon devs try to force some half-baked "permission" upon the Fediverse software with the most powerful, most advanced, most fine-grained permissions systems in existence. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FEP" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FEP</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://aus.social/@fixatedpersonsunit" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Tingo</a> @<a href="https://spacey.space/@OliviaVespera" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Olivia Vespera</a> @<a href="https://meow.social/@PepperTheVixen" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">PepperTheVixen ΘΔ</a> I've started putting together a highly detailed wiki about image descriptions and alt-text specifically for the Fediverse. It's still an early WIP, though, and of currently 36 planned pages, only 12 are written, but I've already got the titles for the others. In case you're curious, <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/wiki/jupiter_rowland/How(20)to(20)describe(20)images(20)in(20)the(20)Fediverse/Home" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">here it is</a>. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@benpate" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Ben Pate 🤘🏻</a> Hubzilla has an optional app that's remotely similar: Rendezvous. <a href="https://framagit.org/hubzilla/addons/-/tree/master/rendezvous?ref_type=heads" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Here are the sources</a>, and here's the description inside Hubzilla itself: <blockquote>Create a new rendezvous and share the access link with those you wish to invite to the group. Those who open the link become members of the rendezvous. They can view other member locations, add markers to the map, or share their own locations with the group.</blockquote> It probably ties in with OpenStreetMap; <a href="https://framagit.org/hubzilla/addons/-/tree/master/openstreetmap?ref_type=heads" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">here are the sources for that</a>. However, Rendezvous is Hubzilla-exclusive. There is no counterpart to it anywhere on anything that's based on ActivityPub. So I guess it federates only via Zot and not via ActivityPub. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=OpenStreetMap" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">OpenStreetMap</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mas.to/@iwein" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">iwein</a> This is why I've started (occasionally) working on a wiki about how to describe images and write alt-texts specifically in and for the Fediverse. Not just a one-pager, but an entire wiki that will have about three dozen pages when it's done. I'm sourcing various alt-text and image description guides that exist out there on the Web, and I cite them when necessary or appropriate. They may contradict each other, but I'm going to point that out as well. Still, I also point out when something that's valid for alt-texts on static websites or in blog posts is not valid for Fediverse posts. I simply want to be able to tell people how to do it right. I often have to because people keep doing so much wrong. And I want to be able to do so without having to write my explanations directly into posts over and over and over again. Instead, I'll simply be able to link to the pages in my wiki. It's a very early WIP, it's nowhere near completion, but if you're curious, <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/wiki/jupiter_rowland/How(20)to(20)describe(20)images(20)in(20)the(20)Fediverse/Home" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">here it is</a>, right on the same Hubzilla channel that I'm commenting from right now. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://social.wedistribute.org/users/damon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">damon</a> Granted, this blog post is four years old. It predates not only the rise of Bluesky, but also even Musk's Twitter takeover announcement, much less the actual takeover. But once again, there's this "Mastodon and the Fediverse", and once again with the same old meaning. "Mastodon" as in Mastodon the software and "Fediverse" as in the Mastodon network. Another post that claims, no, insists that the Fediverse is literally Twitter with 500 characters because it only consists of Mastodon. Mastodon 3.x, actually, which hardly had any features that Twitter didn't have. But take a look at Hubzilla, which is where this comment comes from, even though most people will see it on Mastodon. Daily-drive Hubzilla for a year or two. And then tell me with a straight face that Hubzilla is a Twitter clone and all the same as Twitter. And once again, I guess that literally nobody who is on Mastodon now sees anything wrong with this notion, and I only expect the usual small handful of non-Mastodon users to complain about it. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NotOnlyMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">NotOnlyMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseIsNotMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseIsNotMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonIsNotTheFediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">MastodonIsNotTheFediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://circumstances.run/@Szescstopni" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Szescstopni</a> <blockquote>What is too long/too short?</blockquote> There can't be any fixed definition for that. Not here in the Fediverse. The "Over 200 characters is too long" rule does not work in and can't be applied to the Fediverse. No, sorry, it can't. I've explained it in my (very early WIP) wiki about image descriptions and alt-text in the Fediverse: <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/wiki/jupiter_rowland/How(20)to(20)describe(20)images(20)in(20)the(20)Fediverse/How(20)are(20)alt-text(20)and(20)image(20)descriptions(20)in(20)the(20)Fediverse(20)different(20)from(20)other(20)places(3f)" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">How are alt-text and image descriptions in the Fediverse different from other places?</a> (tl;dr: On the Web, over 200 characters in alt-text are evil, but you've got captions, and you've got ample of other possibilities to describe an image than the alt-text. On Mastodon, you've only got the alt-text for image descriptions, and people cheer for 1,000-character alt-texts.) Depending on a) the kind of image you post, b) the obscurity of its contents, c) your audience (including whoever might stumble upon your image post; if you post in public, that's basically the whole Fediverse and everyone with Web access), d) their knowledge about what your image shows and e) their to-be-expected curiosity about what your image shows, you may have to describe your image in way more than 200 characters. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">This was the last time I've posted an image here on Hubzilla.</a> It's a rendering from within a super-obscure 3-D virtual world. Next to nobody has ever seen it, but due to this being a 3-D virtual world (= proof that "the Metaverse is surprisingly not dead"), curiosity may be high. And my impression of especially Mastodon is that people prefer being given any and all information they may need right away to having to ask. Like, ask what something specific looks like. And so the image description in the alt-text is a bit over 1,400 characters long. And it's still very lacking. It doesn't even mention certain elements in the image. And it doesn't transcribe even only one bit of text. It's actually an extremely shortened version of the long image description in the post text itself. Over 60,000 characters of visual description and necessary explanations and text transcripts. That's over 10,000 words. That's probably over three hours of a screen reader rambling. That's two full days of me examining the place up-close, looking up additional information and writing the description. But I deemed it necessary. If it was an absolute requirement for me to a) cut the alt-text down to a maximum of 200 characters and b) cut the long description altogether, lots and lots and lots of information would be lost, including all text transcripts. <blockquote>I must learn more about the rules of the capitalization police.</blockquote> If you use a hashtag like <code>#⁠superbowl</code>, how is NVDA or any other screen reader software supposed to know whether that means "Super Bowl" or "superb owl"? Thus, any new word in a multiple-word hashtag must be capitalised so that screen readers know that this is where a new word starts. There are two ways of doing this. One is camel case. Camel case is the lazy variant: The first word is not capitalised, all other words are. <code>#⁠oneTwoThree</code> The other one is Pascal case, named after the programming language Pascal. Pascal case is the prettier variant: All words are capitalised. <code>#⁠OneTwoThree</code> <blockquote>Oops, I shouldn't have posted those images in replies as public. Anyway, 833 out of 836 images with alttext ain't so bad.</blockquote> Replying to a public post with a DM isn't supported everywhere in the Fediverse anyway. This only works on purist microblogging server applications on which a thread is just a bunch of posts tied together with mentions. It does not, however, work on more elaborate Fediverse server applications like Hubzilla (where I'm commenting from right now), (streams) and Forte. On these, a thread is an enclosed object with exactly one post, the start post, and otherwise comments. They have a highly complex permissions system in which all permissions in a conversation are defined by the post. If the post is public, all comments are public, full stop. So if you had replied to this otherwise 100% public, 100% Mastodon thread with a DM, then Hubzilla would have monkey-wrenched your DM into a public comment with a red padlock symbol for a permission conflict. CC: @<a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/@stefan" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Stefan Bohacek</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CamelCase" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CamelCase</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=PascalCase" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">PascalCase</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Permissions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Permissions</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a class="" href="https://im.allmendenetz.de/channel/chris" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">?????</a> Bei dieser Entschlackungsaktion könnte Hubzilla sich eigentlich auch die eine oder andere Scheibe von (streams) und Forte abschneiden, die in der Bedienung eine Ecke leichter sind und vor allem eher an das heutige Fediverse angepaßt sind, das dominiert wird von ActivityPub und Mastodon. Hubzilla ist ja im Grunde immer noch ausgelegt auf eine Vision eines vollnomadischen "Grid" auf Zot-Basis, das in den 2010ern mal die "Föderation" beerben sollte. Nur daß dieser Traum schon seit Ende der 2010er ausgeträumt ist, seit sich das ActivityPub-basierte Fediverse um Mastodon herum entwickelt. Es fällt auch auf, daß Hubzilla etliche Features hat, die wohl mal (und sei es schon bei der Entwicklung von Red 2012) nachträglich reingebaut worden sind, die jetzt optional und standardmäßig deaktiviert sind. Damit soll Hubzilla sich wohl standardmäßig weiter anfühlen wie 2015 oder gar wie die gute alte Red Matrix. Das macht Hubzilla aber nicht einfacher; im Gegenteil, das sind Sachen, wo @pepe und ich gebetsmühlenartig immer wieder drauf hinweisen: Wenn man einen Kanal aufsetzt, dann gehören die eingeschaltet, bevor man irgendwas anderes macht! Solche Sachen sind auf (streams) und Forte mitunter von vornherein aktiviert oder gleich hartgecodet, wenn es gar keinen wirklichen Sinn ergibt, sie abzuschalten, bzw. die schon auf Hubzilla jeder aktiviert hat, der Ahnung hat. Ich schätze mal, schon zu seligen Osada- und Zap-Zeiten sind viele dieser Sachen in den Kern gewandert oder standardmäßig aktiviert worden. Beispiel: Pubcrawl. Ist auf Hubzilla eine App und für neue Kanäle standardmäßig deaktiviert. Alle bidirektionalen, nichtnomadischen Protokolle sind standardmäßig deaktiviert, weil Hubzilla eben noch auf dieses vollnomadische "Grid" ausgelegt ist und z. B. ActivityPub der nomadischen Identität in die Suppe spuckt. Aber seien wir mal ehrlich: Hubzilla-Newbies wollen als allererstes mal mit Mastodon verbunden bleiben. Einen vollnomadischen Kanal würde nur ein Experte wollen und auch das nur selten. Auf (streams) ist ActivityPub nicht nur Teil des Kerns, sondern standardmäßig aktiviert. Den Schalter gibt's eigentlich nur als "Anti-Mastodon-Zugbrücke" für individuelle Kanäle. Und sollte das Uafilter oder FedUp mal für einzelne Kanäle aktivierbar werden, wird der Schalter ziemlich obsolet, was er auf Serverebene eigentich jetzt schon ist. Anderes Beispiel: Auf Hubzilla sind Privacy Groups eine App und standardmäßig deaktiviert, und du hast nur eine Privacy Group namens "Freunde". Auf (streams) und Forte sind Zugriffslisten auch eine App, aber meines Wissens standardmäßig aktiviert. Noch ein Beispiel: Auf Kommentare zu antworten, ist auf Hubzilla optional und standardmäßig deaktiviert, und die Option ist schwer zu finden, weil Hubzillas Konfiguration so verquast und verteilt ist. Wieso ist das überhaupt optional? Was kann denn heutzutage sonst noch keine Baumstruktur und nur flache Threads außer dem ollen phpBB? Auf (streams) und Forte, die schon lange Baumstruktur haben, stellt sich die Frage gar nicht, weil es eben nicht mehr optional ist. Noch ein Beispiel: Daumen runter ist auf Hubzilla optional und standardmäßig deaktiviert; das war es damals auch auf Friendica, wo ich noch da war. Auf (streams) und Forte ist es hartgecodet. Stört ja keinen, wieso also optional machen? Ein Schalter weniger in der Konfiguration. Noch ein Beispiel: Superblock. Gibt's als App auf (streams) und Forte nicht mehr, weil die Funktionalität so essentiell ist, daß sie jetzt fest in den Kern eingebaut ist. Auf Hubzilla muß man das erst noch einschalten. Noch ein Beispiel: Erweiterte Profile sind auf (streams) und Forte keine Option mit gut verstecktem Schalter mehr, weil das Profil von vornherein "erweitert" ist. Wieder ein überflüssiger Schalter weniger. Auf (streams) und Forte sind auch Kanalquellen keine normalerweise deaktivierte App mehr, sondern in den Kern eingebaut und immer verfügbar. Auch wenn das Luxus ist. Überhaupt die Konfiguration. Auf Hubzilla merkt man wirklich, wie alles Mögliche an Features nachträglich eingebaut worden ist und die Konfiguration dafür irgendwo drangepappt wurde, mal hier, mal da. Du hast die Einstellungen im Kanalmenü, da findest du aber längst nicht alles. Du hast die Zahnräder, die einige von uns erst nach Jahren entdeckt haben. Es gibt sogar noch Einstellungen, die nur unter <code>/settings/features</code> zu finden sind, das wiederum nur im "Newbie-Menü" einen Link hat. Und den "Custom"-Kanaltyp kannst du nicht bei den Kanaltypen konfigurieren, wo du ihn auswählst, sondern unter Privatsphäre. Auf (streams) und Forte hast du beinahe alles an einem Ort, nämlich unter "Einstellungen" im App-Menü (auch wenn dein Muskelgedächtnis dann flucht, weil der Menüpunkt jetzt in einem anderen Menü ist). Das schließt Kanalmanagement ein, das schließt dein Profil ein, das schließt Berechtigungsrollen ein, das schließt blockierte Nutzer und Server (!) ein. Ein paar Sachen werden noch nur über die App konfiguriert, etwa Zugriffslisten. A propos Berechtigungsrollen (ex Kontaktrollen): Braucht man nicht mehr. Berechtigungen für Kontakte kann man direkt an den Kontakten einstellen ohne Rumgehampel mit Rollen. Rollen gibt's noch, aber als Schablonen, wenn man bestimmten Kontakten eh immer denselben Satz Berechtigungen verpaßt. Wenn du eine Berechtigung anders haben willst für einen Kontakt, brauchst du dafür nicht erst eine neue Rolle anzulegen, sondern du gehst zum Kontakt und legst den Schalter für die eine Berechtigung um. Fertig. Last but not least braucht man auf (streams) auch nicht mehr mit <code>?verb == Announce</code> im Filter rumzufriemeln. Statt dessen gibt's einen Schalter pro Kontakt, der Boosts aussperrt. Daß Hubzillas Features so unbekannt sind, liegt auch daran, daß Hubzilla noch so unbekannt ist. Wer kann sich noch an Anfang des Jahres erinnern, wo es nach Facebook-Exodus aussah? Da war auch allenfalls von Friendica als "die Facebook-Alternative" im Fediverse die Rede. Hubzilla kannte keine Sau, (streams) und Forte noch weniger. Das hat ja bekanntlich mehrere Ursachen. <ul><li>Mike lief bis 2023 nach der Devise: "Wenn du es baust, werden sie kommen." Er hat erst 2023 angefangen, für irgendwas Werbung zu machen.</li><li>Unsere Entwickler kommen selbst nicht dazu, Werbung zu machen. Das bleibt an der Community hängen.</li><li>Ein Teil der Community "spricht nur Entwickler" bzw. "spricht nur Admin", kann Hubzilla also keinen Endanwendern schmackhaft machen, weil die das Devsprech bzw. Adminsprech gar nicht verstehen.</li><li>Ein anderer Teil sein wie: "Hubzilla muß erst noch dies-und-das-und-jenes in Ordnung bringen, um tageslichttauglich zu werden!1!!" Dazu zählen auch die, die sagen, es lohnt sich nicht, ein Hubzilla zu bewerben, für das es keine nativen Android-Apps im Google Play Store und iPhone-Apps im Apple App Store gibt.</li><li>Dann dürfte es die geben, die eher dafür sind, daß die alten Hubzilla-Recken unter sich bleiben, und gar keine Newbies wollen. Deckungsgleich mit denen, die ganz genau wissen, warum sie PubCrawl nie aktiviert (oder wieder deaktiviert) haben.</li><li>Man hat auf wundersame Art und Weise auf Mastodon nur von Mastodon aus wirklich Reichweite, obwohl die Tröter gar nicht mitkriegen, was woher kommt. Aber Hubzilla wird, wenn, dann mit Ausnahme von @<a class="" href="https://www.top-netz.eu/channel/doris" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Doris</a> nur von Hubzilla aus beworben.</li></ul> Dieser mangelnde Bekanntheitsgrad führt dann zu "Hubzilla auf Wish bestellt"-Situationen wie mit Bonfire oder Tim Berners-Lees Solid. Ich meine, 2010 hätten schon sehr viele Leute sehr viel Crowdfunding-Geld für diaspora* sparen können, wenn Mike schon im März oder April an die Öffentlichkeit gegangen wäre und gesagt hätte, Leute, ich bau euch hier den freien, quelloffenen, unkommerziellen, dezentralen Facebook-Killer, und bis zum Sommer steht die Kiste. Letztlich sind viele Hubzilla-Features für Hubzilla-Nutzer ganz alltäglich, aber für Nicht-Hubzilla-Nutzer, und dazu zählen auch fast alle Fediverse-Entwickler, völlig unvorstellbar, weil sie die weder von Twitter noch von Mastodon kennen. Kein Wunder also, daß viele Fediverse-Entwickler Bahnhof verstehen, wenn man ihnen von diesen Features erzählt. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://fietkau.social/@julian" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Julian Fietkau</a> Maybe it'd make sense to get the devs aboard, @<a class="" href="https://hub.somaton.com/channel/mario" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mario Vavti</a> and @<a class="" href="https://hub.volse.no/channel/harald" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Harald Eilertsen</a> for Hubzilla and @<a class="" href="https://fediversity.site/channel/mikedev" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mike Macgirvin ?️</a> for (streams) and Forte. And I think there's a new place being worked on where Fediverse devs can meet in the Fediverse itself, but I don't have any more details right now. I can see four things becoming tricky when it comes to comment control. One is if it isn't enough to add support for another implementation, and if either side actually had to change the way it handles permission in a way that isn't backwards-compatible. The second one is that Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte don't simply allow or forbid comments, but they can allow only certain actors to comment, and be it all contacts of a channel. I don't know if GTS has that feature, or if it can support it. The third one is that (streams) and Forte can limit the time in which a post can be commented. Channels can be configured so that comments are only allowed for a certain timespan, and individual posts can be configured so that they can only be commented on until a certain point in the future. Now, the thing is that, much unlike all the many microblogging applications, the permissions in a conversation are always the same on (streams) and Forte (and also on Hubzilla). All comments, regardless of whether they come from (streams) or Mastodon or Lemmy or wherever, always have the same permissions as the post. Replying to a public conversation with a DM is not supported, for example; the DM will be regarded as a public comment. This also means that you're only allowed to reply to a comment in a thread if you're also allowed to comment on the post itself. But if you're allowed to comment on the post, you're also allowed to reply to any comment in the conversation, full stop. Speaking in "non-nomadic, no-enclosed-conversations ActivityPub" terms, this means that at a certain point after a post was sent, the owner of the post will have to automatically send a new version of both the post and all comments on the post, with comment permission revoked, around to all participants in the conversation as well as to everywhere that e.g. some Mastodon user has boosted one of the comments. Either that, or a comment control FEP will have to include temporary comment permissions, and Mastodon and everything else will have to support them. I'm pretty sure that Mastodon users would love this feature, and they'd applaud Eugen Rochko for "inventing" it and "introducing it to the Fediverse". But (streams) and Forte certainly won't remove this feature just because the FEP don't support it. As for how Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte handle this right now, AFAIK, they only advertise their comment permissions amongst each other. This means that if permission to comment is not granted, the comment button is removed from the UI. Not even greyed out, actually removed. Towards the wider Fediverse, they act differently: They're fully aware that they can't keep a Mastodon account from commenting. Instead, they reject a comment that isn't allowed. And rejecting works differently on these three than on Mastodon: Rejected content is not first let into the inbox, then filtered and then deleted. It isn't let into the inbox in the first place. And if an activity has only got one possible recipient on a server, and that recipient doesn't allow that activity, the whole server rejects it. The reason why this works for comment control is because conversations themselves work differently on these three (and Friendica) than on Mastodon: On Mastodon, replies go to a) whoever is mentioned and b) whoever follows the replier. On Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, comments always go straight to the conversation starter, even if they're comments on a comment on a comment on a comment, and from there to all participants in the thread. Of course, Mastodon users won't notice new comments until they're mentioned in the metadata. Now, if the conversation starter rejects a comment that has actually been sent, the comment is not added to the conversation. This means two things: One, on the conversation starter's own stream, the comment does not appear as part of the conversation. Two, the comment is not forwarded to the other participants in the thread either. From a Mastodon POV, this means that you may be able to see the branch of the conversation in which you've participated with your rejected comment in it on your own server. But if you go check the whole thread at its source, you will not see your rejected comment in the conversation. A side-effect of this is that it isn't possible to reply to rejected comments either. Let's suppose you see some toot in your timeline. It's a comment on some (streams) post. What the commenter is blissfully unaware of: They aren't permitted to comment on this post. (streams) has rejected the comment. But you are amongst the lucky few who are permitted to comment. Still, you can't reply to that one comment. If a comment is rejected, then all replies to this comment are rejected, too, regardless of permissions. That's because they cannot be attached to the conversation because their own parent is missing. From your Mastodon POV, you will be able to reply. But your reply will never become part of the conversation. This would all be a whole lot better if the entire Fediverse supported a) enclosed threaded conversations (as opposed to Twitter-like posts-and-more-posts piecemeal) and b) permissions, including comment control all the way to temporary comment permission. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=GoToSocial" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">GoToSocial</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Permission" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Permission</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Permissions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Permissions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ReplyControl" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ReplyControl</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://moppels.bar/@crossgolf_rebel" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts</a> Wahrscheinlich auch ein Grund, warum (streams) und Forte so sind, wie sie sind: Bei (streams) hat Mike nodeinfo mit Absicht komplett rausgeschmissen. Forte hat wieder nodeinfo, weil das laut Mike in einem mastodondominierten Fediverse zwingend notwendig ist. Aber Forte meldet alle Statistikwerte als 0. Auch da kann man von Absicht ausgehen. Während also Hubzilla die Statistiken mit nomadischen Kanälen verzerrt, weil jeder Klon als eigenes Konto aufgefaßt wird, gleichzeitig aber auch jeder einzelne Kanal auf demselben Konto wiederum als eigenes Konto gezählt wird (Hubzilla meldet ja zum Glück nicht die Zahl der Konten, sondern die Zahl der Kanäle), tauchen (streams) und Forte in den Statistiken überhaupt nicht auf. Interessanterweise meldet Forte auch keine Versionsnummern per nodeinfo, sondern nur auf Wegen, die nur von Mikes eigener Software verstanden werden. So kann man zwar auf Community-Listen auf (streams) und Forte die Versionsnummern einzelner Server sehen, aber Crawler, die auf ActivityPub und Mastodon ausgelegt sind, erfahren die Versionsnummern nicht. Dazu kommt, daß (streams) ohne nodeinfo nicht crawlbar ist. Selbst wenn es nodeinfo hätte, wäre es nicht crawlbar, weil es als einzige Fediverse-Software keinen festen, einheitlichen Softwarenamen hat. Und so ist (streams) vom Fediverse Observer und vom FediIndex komplett abwesend. Die FediDB, auf der Daniel jede Software per Hand einträgt, kennt nicht nur (streams) nicht, sondern auch Forte. Zugegeben, statistische Signifikanz fürs Fediverse als Ganzes haben die beiden nicht. (streams) dürfte keine 50 aktiven Nutzer haben, Forte keine 20, die sich samt und sonders aus den (streams)-Reihen rekrutiert haben dürften. Und Forte hat nur Privatserver, aber keinen einzigen öffentlichen mit offener Registrierung, während (streams) zumindest davon zwei hat, die aber nur Insider kennen. CC: @<a href="https://gruene.social/users/netzbegruenung" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Netzbegrünung</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=nodeinfo" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">nodeinfo</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mitra.social/users/silverpill" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">silverpill</a> @<a href="https://fietkau.social/@julian" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Julian Fietkau</a> In the background, yes. At first, I expected this implementation to be exactly like Misskey and require this line in plain sight in the content so that the quoted post is rendered dynamically. Which has never been the case in Mike's software family. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotePost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePosts" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotePosts</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTweet" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteTweet</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTweets" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteTweets</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteToot" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteToot</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteToots" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteToots</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteBoost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoosts" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteBoosts</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotedShares" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotedShares</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FEP_e232" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FEP_e232</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://moppels.bar/@crossgolf_rebel" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts</a> @<a href="https://iceshrimp.de/@fasnix" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">flo</a> Der FediIndex ist auch nicht verläßlicher. Die Angaben von Misskey und GoToSocial über monatlich aktive Nutzer sind nämlich so verquer, die sind für das Fediverse-Gesamtbild komplett für die Füße, also zählt der FediIndex sie einfach nicht mit dazu. Aber im Gegensatz zu den Nomaden auf Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte kann man die zahllosen Misskey-Nutzer in Ostasien nicht einfach so als Rundungsfehler unter den Teppich kehren. Und ich glaube, die auch nicht wenigen GTS-Selbsthoster haben inzwischen auch statistische Signifikanz, vor allem bei den Einzelnutzerinstanzen. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Misskey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Misskey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=GoToSocial" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">GoToSocial</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://fietkau.social/@julian" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Julian Fietkau</a> <blockquote>I don't know if translating the absence of a FEP-044f quote policy as “not quotable” was the right decision. Maybe it wasn't.</blockquote> If you use server software that has quote-posts implemented with no quote policy, I think it's rather safe to assume that you're okay with being quote-posted. I mean, if you're on Misskey, complaining about being quote-posted is like complaining about emoji reactions, MFM shenanigans or the overall genki feeling. Misskey is not Mastodon with 3,000 characters; deal with it. And I haven't even mentioned "Speak as Cat" yet that's popular around the Forkeys. <blockquote>You might have seen my comment in the forum thread on a way to make it easier for platforms like Friendica to signal a free-for-all quoting permission.</blockquote> I was just about to say that this goes doubly for those server applications where quote-posts are an integral part of the communication culture. Seriously, if you're on one of these, but you don't want anyone to quote-post you, and you still insist in always posting in public, you're doing something wrong. And just as seriously, unlike Mastodon, especially the Friendica/Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte family won't mollycoddle you. If you come to stay, we expect you to know what you're doing and why. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Misskey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Misskey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forkey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forkey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forkeys" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forkeys</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotePost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePosts" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotePosts</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTweet" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteTweet</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTweets" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteTweets</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteToot" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteToot</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteToots" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteToots</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteBoost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoosts" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteBoosts</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotedShares" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotedShares</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FEP_044f" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FEP_044f</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://fietkau.social/@julian" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Julian Fietkau</a> I'm surprised to read that (streams) allegedly has FEP-e232 implemented. As I happen to have two (streams) channels myself, and as (streams) allows me to have a look at the whole source code of any activity (whereas Hubzilla only shows me that of the content), I've checked a fairly recent post of mine that includes a link. And while it does define the hashtags just like Mastodon and Hubzilla, it does not define links in a way that conforms to FEP-e232. Either that, or (streams)' implementation of FEP-e232 is newer than the software was when I sent that post. Next, I wanted to see if (streams) had its way of quote-posting changed in the last seven years or so of development and forking. I expected it to quote-post like Hubzilla, namely by turning a BBcode short code into a dumb copy of the original upon sending, but I wanted to see proof. As (streams) is a fork of a fork of three forks of a fork (of a fork) of Hubzilla that's still maintained by Hubzilla's own creator, I would have been surprised if he had changed the way (streams) quote-posts at some point on the way. So I quote-posted my own post on (streams) just to see what happens. And (streams) acted exactly like Hubzilla and not at all like described in FEP-044f on the surface. It still inserts a dumb copy. Good thing I have access to the full source code of any message on (streams). So here's what happened, namely what I expected to happen: (streams) quote-posts like Hubzilla. First of all, when I clicked the "Share" button, this short code was inserted into the post editor: <code>[share⁠=1198713][/share]</code> The number, by the way, is the running number of the message to quote-post on the server. Upon sending the post, (streams) automatically "expanded" the short code into the dumb copy I had expected. <code>[⁠share author='Jupiter+Rowland' profile='https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland' portable_id='_moYLN61-o3FbP3jyThygMDf-bjF2cApXgkrwlAE77iKy19xM1_6F06V4b71eTkqqNaTUjGiN0lfw2dyn5nXRw' avatar='https://streams.elsmussols.net/xp/6b50efa4bb804860f6128bba791b74fab4a0a5e09dbcbee8d8ca77cee00f0330-6' link='https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/0a1cdda5-eb1c-4a33-9574-ddd896977b4f' auth='true' posted='2025-09-21 19:42:56' message_id='https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/0a1cdda5-eb1c-4a33-9574-ddd896977b4f'] ...(the source code of the original message goes here)... [/share]</code> Both Hubzilla and (streams) render this the same way, namely with a header line above the copy that includes the profile picture of the original author, the name of the original author with a Zot/Nomad-type link to their channel/account and a Zot/Nomad-type link to the original of the post ("Zot/Nomad-type" means that <code>[zrl][/zrl]</code> is used rather than <code>[url][/url]</code> which means that the ID of an observer on Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte is attached to the link for OpenWebAuth identity recognition purposes.) At the same time, curiously, (streams) includes the line <code>"rel": "https://misskey-hub.net/ns#_misskey_quote"</code> and a line that starts with <code>"name": "RE:</code> and continues with the URL of the original message into the code for the link to the original message. The latter is identical to what Misskey and all Forkeys have in quote-posting notes in plain sight, only that (streams) only reveals it in the source code rather than in the content as well. So this part of FEP-044f is implemented, albeit concealed from most people and only happening in the code. Now, looking at the quote policy part, that looks like it could be possible to add to the Fediverse's permission champions Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. After all, they already have comment controls with no FEP backing it (and if GoToSocial's quote policy can be made into an FEP, maybe so can (streams)' and Forte's comment controls so that they actually do blank out reply buttons on the farther ends of the Fediverse if the software on the farther ends implement support for that FEP). This could be done at three levels again. I'll illustrate this with (streams) and Forte because they're quite a bit less complex than older Hubzilla. At channel level, quote-posting (and maybe quoting as well) could be set as usually, namely to semi-public (= everyone in the Fediverse = no quote policy), restricted (= only your contacts) and only yourself. (Seriously, you don't want random passersby with no accounts to quote-post you. Even though you can allow them to comment on your posts if you dare.) "Only yourself" could be overridden at contact level by permitting certain contacts to quote-post (and maybe quote) your messages. This is actually standard behaviour on (streams) and Forte. And then there is the per-post level which would be similar to (streams)' and Forte's comment controls. These allow you to limit who may comment on a post to only your contacts and those who have already participated in the same conversation, and they allow you to turn off comments altogether. Quote authorisation would not be much different in handling from manually moderating comments from those who technically aren't permitted to comment (only that spammers don't quote-post, at least not yet, and they probably never will because that simply makes no sense). So that'd be nothing really new. Of course, this would have some limitations which come from how Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte work and from their conversation architecture. The first limitation is that you could only give certain contacts permission to quote-post your posts if you didn't give it to the whole Fediverse. Channel-wide permissions are always inherited by contact-specific permissions, and this cannot be overridden. So you couldn't generally allow everyone to quote-post your posts except for one certain contact of yours. The second limitation is that you can only control the permissions of contacts, but not of non-contacts. So you can't disallow some stranger whom you aren't connected to to quote-post your posts while everyone else is allowed. Then again, FEP-044f doesn't make either of these two possible either. It can only define who is permitted to quote-post a post, not who isn't. The third limitation is that, on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, comments always have the same permissions as the post that they belong to because comments always have the same owner as the post that they belong to. Basically, if FEP-044f was to be defined for each comment individually, it would have a chance of clashing with conversation containers as per FEP-171b. Here on Hubzilla, as well as from (streams)' point of view, everyone's comments in this thread are owned by me because I've started the thread. And the permissions on all these comments are defined by my post. I've seen my share of permission clashes whenever someone on Mastodon replied to a public post or a public comment with a DM, and Hubzilla overrode this by forcing the permissions of the post on that reply. In practice, this means that the quote policies of all comments would be the same as that of the post. At least that's how Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte would understand them because the concept of comments having different permissions than the post is alien to them. So if you say that I'm not permitted to quote-post your comment, but I say that anyone can quote-post my post, Hubzilla and (streams) override the quote policy that you've given your comment on Mastodon with the quote policy that I've given my post on Hubzilla, and I can quote-post you. So the actually difficult part would be to implement an exception in how Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte handle comment permissions for quote policies and make them individual for each comment rather than making comments inherit them from the post. Well, and lastly, if you permitted all your contacts to quote-post a post of yours, and you had a few more contacts, the <code>"canQuote"</code> section would end up monstrous. (A bit less so if you could cherry-pick those who are allowed to quote-post you on a per-post base, just like you can cherry-pick those who are allowed to see the post in the first place.) Also, I'm wondering just how well policies as per FEP-044f (and their implementations in various server applications) will work with DIDs as per FEP-ef61 which (streams) and Forte use, and I guess, so does Mitra now. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Misskey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Misskey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forkey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forkey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forkeys" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forkeys</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=GoToSocial" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">GoToSocial</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mitra" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mitra</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotePost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePosts" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotePosts</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTweet" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteTweet</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTweets" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteTweets</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteToot" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteToot</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteToots" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteToots</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteBoost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoosts" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteBoosts</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotedShares" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotedShares</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Permission" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Permission</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Permissions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Permissions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FEP_044f" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FEP_044f</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FEP_171b" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FEP_171b</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FEP_e232" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FEP_e232</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FEP_ef61" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FEP_ef61</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://akk.fedcast.ch/users/hiker" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hiker</a> @<a href="https://moppels.bar/@crossgolf_rebel" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts</a> @<a href="https://tyrol.social/@nitrml" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Niko Trimmel</a> @<a href="https://iceshrimp.de/@fasnix" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">flo</a> @<a href="https://gruene.social/users/netzbegruenung" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Netzbegrünung</a> Und es sind wieder nur Nicht-Mastodon-Fediverse-Nutzer, die sich darüber aufregen. Derweil heißt es aus den Mastodon-Reihen: "Kanns' nix machen, ist aber eh scheißegal." #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NichtNurMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">NichtNurMastodon</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://loma.ml/profile/feb" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Matthias</a> @<a href="https://no-pony.farm/@Life_is" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">C.Suthorn :prn:</a> Ich habe es oben geschrieben: So ein System ist fediverseweit gar nicht möglich. Es ist technisch nicht realisierbar. Was Mastodon da gebaut hat, funktioniert nur innerhalb von Mastodon. Ich habe es ja oben erklärt: <ul><li>Auch wenn du einen Post als nicht quote-post-bar einstellst, können Pleroma, Misskey, Friendica & Co. den trotzdem ungehindert quote-posten.</li><li>Gleichzeitig kann niemand auf Mastodon irgendwas auf Pleroma, Misskey, Friendica & Co. quote-posten, obwohl es jeder darf.</li></ul> Das liegt daran, daß Mastodon mal wieder mit voller Absicht das Rad neu erfunden hat. Sie hätten die Art des Quote-Postens übernehmen können, die Misskey schon lange hat und die auch Threads verwendet. Sie hätten die Art des Quote-Postens übernehmen können, die Friendica seit über 15 Jahren erfolgreich einsetzt. Nein, statt dessen hat Mastodon eine eigene, proprietäre Technik entwickelt und sich mit vollem Vorsatz zum Rest des Fediverse noch inkompatibler gemacht. Aber noch einmal: Mike Macgirvin sagt, es ist technisch nicht möglich, Quote-Posts von öffentlichen Posts zu verhindern. Und noch einmal: Der Mann muß es wissen. Mike entwickelt schon seit fast einem halben Jahrhundert Software. Er ist Profi. Er war mal bezahlter Profi. Mike hat Friendica rausgehauen, da ging Eugen Rochko noch zur Schule. Mike hat mehr Fediverse-Serveranwendungen entwickelt als jeder andere da draußen. Jede einzelne davon ist von den Features her leistungsfähiger als alles andere, was es im Fediverse gibt. Mike hat im Alleingang sogar mehr Fediverse-Protokolle entwickelt als jeder andere da draußen. Mike hat nomadische Identität im Alleingang erfunden, und sie funktioniert seit 2012. Und Mike hat in puncto Sicherheit und Berechtigungssteuerung weit mehr gemacht als jeder andere Fediverse-Entwickler. Das, was er entwickelt hat, ist in seiner Funktionalität auch nicht eingeschränkt auf die eigene Software, sondern er hat sich immer auch Gedanken darüber gemacht, wie es außerhalb funktioniert, während für Eugen Rochko alles außerhalb von Mastodon Feindesland ist, das ignoriert wird und totgeschwiegen gehört. Ganz ehrlich: Was vor allem Hubzilla und (streams) und Forte können in puncto Berechtigungssteuerung, das ist für die meisten Mastodon-Nutzer vollkommen unvorstellbar. Es gibt Berechtigungseinstellungen auf bis zu drei Ebenen (ganzer Kanal, einzelne Kontakte, pro Post/Thread) für fast alles bis hin zu Features, die Mastodon gar nicht hat. Nur für Quote-Posts gibt's keine. Weil das fediverseweit nicht möglich ist. Wenn es öffentlich ist und jeder es sehen kann, dann kann es auch jeder quote-posten. Das geht schlicht und ergreifend nicht zu verhindern. Nicht mal innerhalb von Hubzilla und (streams) und Forte. Außerhalb schon mal erst recht nicht. Innerhalb von Mastodon geht's nur aus zwei Gründen. Zum einen, weil Mastodon den ganzen Rest des Fediverse bestenfalls komplett ignoriert. Zum anderen, weil Mastodon-Nutzer zwingend für jeden Pups auf GUI-Knöpfchen angewiesen sind. Sie sind es nicht gewohnt, irgendwas in ihren Tröts per Hand zu formatieren, weil sie noch nie irgendwas haben formatieren können. Und weil gefühlt beinahe jeder nur ein Smartphone und eine dedizierte Mastodon-App verwendet und kein Copy-Paste kennt, ist das Quote-Post-GUI-Knöpfchen das einzige, was sie haben, abgesehen von Screenshots. Aber schon Mastodons Methode funktioniert, wie ich oben schon schrieb, nicht über Mastodon hinaus. Und da kann Mastodon lange drauf warten, daß der Rest des Fediverse seine eigene jahrelang etablierte Technologie wegschmeißt und auf Mastodons proprietäre Technologie umschwenkt. Auf Misskey, den Forkeys und allen anderen, die auf dieselbe Art quote-posten, ist Quote-Posten überhaupt nicht verhinderbar. Das liegt daran, daß Quote-Posts pupeinfach als Link auf den Originalbeitrag ausgeführt sind mit "RE:" davor. <code>RE: https://domain.tld/Adresse_des_Originalbeitrags</code> Zack, hast du einen Quote-Post. Und mal ehrlich, für sowas braucht man kein GUI-Knöpfchen, wenn man tippen und URLs copy-pasten kann. Auch auf Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte, die ganz anders quote-posten, ist Quote-Posten öffentlicher Beiträge nicht verhinderbar. Da nutzen die Leute keine Apps auf Smartphones. Nein, die meisten sitzen am Desktop-PC oder Laptop mit Hardwaretastatur und nutzen einen Standardbrowser statt einer dedizierten App. Copy-Paste ist für sie kein Problem und schon gar kein Fremdwort. Außerdem sind vor allem die alten Hasen es höchstwahrscheinlich meistens gewohnt, Markup-Code für Formatierungen per Hand einzutippen, statt sich auf die GUI-Knöpfchen zu verlassen, die auch nur BBcode-Stückchen in den Editor reinpflanzen. Mike Macgirvin sagt: Es gibt genau eine Art und Weise, wirksam fediverseweit zu verhindern, daß du gequote-postet wirst. Und das ist, nicht öffentlich zu posten. Für jemanden für ihn ist es aber auch einfach, das zu sagen. Gerade auf Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte gibt es etliche Abstufungen zwischen öffentlich und DM. Auf Hubzilla kann ich einen Post <ul><li>in alle Öffentlichkeit</li><li>nur an mich selbst</li><li>an eine bestimmte Privacy Group (quasi wie eine Liste auf Mastodon, aber sehr viel mächtiger)</li><li>an diejenigen, denen ich ein Profil zugewiesen habe, das nicht das Standardprofil meines Kanals ist (Mastodon hat dagegen nur ein Profil pro Konto)</li><li>an ein bestimmtes Forum/eine bestimmte Gruppe</li><li>eine beliebige individuelle Auswahl aus einzelnen Kontakten, Foren/Gruppen, Privacy Groups und Profilzugewiesenen</li></ul>versenden. Und der Witz ist: Das steuert nicht nur, an wen der Post geht. Das steuert auch, wer den Post (und sämtliche Kommentare zum Post) sehen darf. Wenn der Post nicht an dich geht, wirst du ihn nie zu Gesicht bekommen. Nein, auch nicht per Boost. Das ist nämlich bei nichtöffentlichen Posts explizit verboten, und das dafür nötige Bedienelement ist schlicht und ergreifend nicht da. Es wird noch besser: Das funktioniert sogar bis nach Mastodon. Denn wenn es nicht öffentlich ist, dann stellt es sich Mastodon gegenüber als DM dar. Ich setze noch einen drauf: Im krassen Gegensatz zum restlichen Fediverse posten Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte mit Standardeinstellungen nicht öffentlich. Alle drei haben standardmäßig schon eine Privacy Group/Zugriffsliste namens "Freunde", in der alle neuen Kontakte landen. Und alle drei posten standardmäßig nur zu dieser Privacy Group/Zugriffsliste namens "Freunde". Aus Mastodon-Sicht verschicken alle drei standardmäßig immer nur DMs. Wenn du öffentlich posten willst, ist das Extraaufwand. So gehen Sicherheit und Privatsphäre. Und nicht mit proprietärem, zu nichts anderem kompatiblem Hokuspokus für Doofe wie auf Mastodon. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Pleroma" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Pleroma</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Misskey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Misskey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forkey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forkey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forkeys" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forkeys</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotePost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePosts" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotePosts</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTweet" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteTweet</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTweets" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteTweets</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteToot" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteToot</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteToots" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteToots</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTr%C3%B6t" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteTröt</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTr%C3%B6ts" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteTröts</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Dr%C3%BCko" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Drüko</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Dr%C3%BCkos" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Drükos</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Druko" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Druko</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Drukos" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Drukos</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteBoost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoosts" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteBoosts</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePostDebatte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotePostDebatte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTr%C3%B6tDebatte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteTrötDebatte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Sicherheit" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Sicherheit</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Berechtigung" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Berechtigung</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Berechtigungen" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Berechtigungen</a>

Jupiter RowlandThe various issues with quote-posts on Mastodon that nobody on Mastodon is aware of; CW: long (almost 6,800 characters), Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta, Mastodon looking bad in comparison with the rest of the Fediverse, quote-post meta

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://aus.social/@pepper0" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Decenta Lyzed</a> @<a href="https://queer.party/@maffsie" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">your purple friend</a> AFAIK, Mitra has not rolled out full-blown nomadic identity yet (as in, no, you can't clone your Mitra identity between two Mitra servers). Even the development branch is only in a state in which it understands nomadic identity. As for what nomadic identity is: <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/Nomadic.identity" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://joinfediverse.wiki/Nomadic.identity</a> There are three Fediverse server applications where you're guaranteed to have solid, proven-to-work nomadic identity: <ul><li>Hubzilla Fork of fork of (non-nomadic) Friendica by Friendica's creator 2012/2015 <a href="https://hubzilla.org" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://hubzilla.org</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/Hubzilla</a> <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://joinfediverse.wiki/Hubzilla</a> Server lists: <a href="https://hubzilla.fediverse.observer/list" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://hubzilla.fediverse.observer/list</a> <a href="https://fedidb.com/software/hubzilla?version=latest&registration=open" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://fedidb.com/software/hubzilla?version=latest®istration=open</a> No iOS apps No Android apps Can be installed as a Progressive Web App</li><li>(streams) Fork of fork of three forks of fork (of fork?) of Hubzilla by the same creator 2021 Intentionally and officially no name, no brand, hence the parentheses around the unofficial name ("(streams)") No official website <a href="https://codeberg.org/streams/streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://codeberg.org/streams/streams</a> Open-registration server in North America (USA): <a href="https://rumbly.net/register" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://rumbly.net/register</a> Open-registration server in Europe (Hungary, German admin, speaks German and English): <a href="https://nomad.fedi-verse.hu/register" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://nomad.fedi-verse.hu/register</a> No iOS apps No Android apps Can be installed as a Progressive Web App</li><li>Forte Fork of (streams) by the same creator 2024 No official website <a href="https://codeberg.org/fortified/forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://codeberg.org/fortified/forte</a> No open-registration servers No iOS apps No Android apps Can be installed as a Progressive Web App</li></ul> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mitra" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mitra</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NomadicIdentity" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">NomadicIdentity</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://aus.social/@pepper0" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Decenta Lyzed</a> I haven't seen Mitra in action yet, so I can't say anything about it. Hubzilla creator and (streams) and Forte maintainer, that'd be @<a class="" href="https://fediversity.site/channel/mikedev" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mike Macgirvin ?️</a>. By the way, the only one of the three that's actually ActivityPub-based is Forte. It just doesn't have any public, open-sign-up servers right now AFAIK. Did I show you my Mastodon/Friendica/Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte comparison tables yet? If not, <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/0a75de76-eb27-4149-b708-f20b2f79d392" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">here they are</a>. But lastly, you have to lay your hands on at least one of them to see how the family differs from the microblogging side of the Fediverse. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mitra" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mitra</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a>

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