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Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@iFixit" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">iFixit</a> <blockquote>and it doesn't look like you can attach documents to posts</blockquote> You can't on Mastodon. I could, both here on <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> and on <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/(streams)" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> where I post my images. But I wouldn't have to. Vanilla Mastodon has a character limit of 500. Hubzilla has a character "limit" that's so staggeringly high that nobody knows how high it is because it doesn't matter. (streams), from the same creator and the same software family as Hubzilla, has a character "limit" of over 24,000,000 which is not an arbitrary design decision but simply the size of the database field. By the way: Both are in the Fediverse, and both are federated with Mastodon, so Mastodon's "all media must have accurate and sufficiently detailed descriptions" rule applies there as well unless you don't care if thousands upon thousands of Mastodon users block you for not supplying image and media descriptions. In theory, I could publish a video of ten minutes, and in the same post, I could add a full, timestamped description that takes several hours to read. Verbatim transcript of all spoken words. Detailed description of the visuals where "detailed" means "as detailed as Mastodon loves its alt-texts" as in "800 characters of alt-text or more for a close-up of a single flower in front of a blurry background" detailed. Detailed description of all camera movements and cuts. Description of non-spoken-word noises. All timestamped, probably with over a hundred timestamps for the whole description of ten minutes of video. Now I'm wondering if that could be helpful or actually required, or if it's overkill and actually a hindrance. CC: @<a href="https://connectified.com/@masukomi" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">masukomi</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.scot/@gunchleoc" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">GunChleoc</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MediaDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MediaDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MediaDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MediaDescriptions</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://c.im/@JosephMeyer" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Joseph Meyer</a> <blockquote>When you read exceptional alt text, do you ever compliment its author? What is the epitome of alt text, either in general terms or using a specific example?</blockquote> I'd really like to know that myself, also to up my own game further and always stay way ahead of image description quality requirements. I mean, <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/1e63be04-d96e-412a-ab47-aff18c5f9ad8" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">I've learned a lot about describing images in and for the Fediverse</a> over the last two years. But I guess I can still learn something new, even if I think I already take care of everything, even if the technical possibilities I have here on Hubzilla for describing images surpass those on Mastodon by magnitudes. Maybe, if I learn something new from those who reply, I can weave it into the image descriptions for a series of images that I've been working on since late last year (the descriptions, not the images which are ready to go). <blockquote>Alt text sometimes merely explains what I am viewing; other times it draws my attention to special details in a photo that I would have otherwise missed.</blockquote> I never explain in alt-text. I do always explain a whole lot because I always have to explain a whole lot. For my original images, it takes me over 1,000 characters alone to explain where an image was made. But I only ever give explanations in the long, detailed image descriptions that go into the post text body (in addition to shorter and purely visual descriptions in the alt-texts). Or if there's no additional long image description in the post itself which is the case for my meme posts, I still supply enough explanation in the post text body (still not in the alt-text) for just about everyone in the Fediverse to understand them without having to look anything up themselves. If I can link to external information, e.g. KnowYourMeme for the template I've used, I do so. If I can't, I write the missing explanations right into the post myself. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://phpc.social/@luciledt" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LucileDT</a> Technically speaking, I've got over 24,000,000 characters for posts and the same over 24,000,000 characters for all alt-texts in a post combined. <a href="https://codeberg.org/streams/streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Where I post my images nowadays</a> (if I post any at all), alt-text is not a separate data field but woven into the image embedding code. Too long alt-text still won't work. The UI can only show so much alt-text at once, and it can always only show the beginning. You can't scroll through alt-text; trying it will close the alt-text pop-up. Besides, alt-text is most important on Mastodon anyway. And as I've already said, Mastodon and its forks (Glitch, Hometown, Ecko etc. etc.) as well as Misskey and its forks (Calckey, Firefish, Iceshrimp, Sharkey, CherryPick, Catodon etc. etc.) all cut alt-texts from outside off at the 1,500-character mark and throw the excess characters away. In my posts, I can go all out. But that leads to extremely long posts. I had <a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/.well-known/apgateway/did:key:z6Mkf2dhUa65zBYCNVqs3AHyt8uPixauZ7bPzEJn15LJANsd/item/8829de04-af65-4fa5-a6fa-438103c7d6c8" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">one meme post with 25,000+ characters in eight explanations for one image</a> before I learned that people do actually prefer externally linked explanations over posts with five-digit character counts due to the many long explanations. And that's without visual descriptions. On my channel for original virtual world images, I've only got <a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/.well-known/apgateway/did:key:z6Mkmc3YmgUu5jTyhc6YqC8VjnMwmFtdjFFA45MHTqyBFaA2/item/b6ae326a-c207-46dd-836b-6bc2b6a3509c" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">one post with two images</a>. One image is a fairly simple avatar portrait with hardly any surroundings, the other one is a bit more complex. Altogether, the two long descriptions still exceed 20,000 characters, explanations and text transcripts included. It could be worse. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">My last image post on this Hubzilla channel here contains only one image</a>, but it's complex enough for a 60,000-character description. In <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/136f021c-06cb-4e38-abe6-2bf37fd521d8" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">the last one before that</a>, I've managed to describe one single object in the image with over 3,000 characters and then explain it with another more than 2,500 characters. And that explanation still depends on the explanations earlier in the image description. This is what happens when the topic is too obscure. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://phpc.social/@luciledt" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LucileDT</a> I always explain my image posts extensively because I know they always need extensive explanations, being about very obscure topics and such. But I don't do so in the alt-text. You should never explain anything in the alt-text. Not everyone can access alt-text. Besides, I'd quickly exceed 1,500 characters which would cause Mastodon, Misskey and their forks to cut my alt-texts off. Instead, my explanations go into the posts themselves which are almost unlimited. In the case of my original images, the explanations are part of a second, much longer and much more detailed image description in the post. CC: @<a href="https://digitalcourage.social/@chikl" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">chikl</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.neilzone.co.uk/@neil" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Neil Brown</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://kolektiva.social/@enby_of_the_apocalypse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">undead enby of the apocalypse</a> It depends. My original images, rare as they are, are even more niche than @<a href="https://mastodon.nl/@Rana" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Zeewater</a>'s, namely renderings from extremely obscure 3-D virtual worlds. This is something that maybe one out of 200,000 Fediverse users "has a basic understanding of". The other 199,999 need explanations. I've long since decided how much detail is relevant, based on who may come across my images, and what they may be interested in. As I don't limit my target audience although I could, I write my image descriptions for random strangers who stumble upon a post of mine on some federated timeline. Considering the topic, they might be interested in everything in the image, regardless of context. And yes, at the same time, they may not be fully sighted. And so I go to such detail that I need two image descriptions. A "short" and purely visual description in the alt-text (which still tends to grow to 1,500 characters, complete with the note where a longer description can be found), and a long, detailed description with all necessary explanations and all text transcripts in the post itself (I don't have any character limits to worry about). CC: @<a href="https://mastodon.neilzone.co.uk/@neil" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Neil Brown</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://toot.cat/@garry" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Garry Knight</a> @<a href="https://mstdn.social/@qurlyjoe" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">qurly(not curly)joe</a> This, by the way, is something that next to nobody in the Fediverse knows, and that many will deny and fight with all they can: Alt-text must never include exclusive information that is neither in the post text nor in the image itself. Such information must always go into the post itself. If you don't have room in the post, add it to a reply or multiple. That's because not everybody can access alt-text. Certain physical disabilities can make accessing alt-text impossible, for example, if someone can't use their hands. Money quote from way down <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/4376779b-8bd1-4da9-9c38-92a7fae57abb" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">this comment thread</a>: <a href="https://hachyderm.io/@gnomicutterance" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://hachyderm.io/@gnomicutterance" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Deborah</a> wrote the following <a href="https://hachyderm.io/@gnomicutterance/110691919197248049" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">post</a> Mon, 10 Jul 2023 23:30:45 +0200 <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@jupiter_rowland</a> I have a disability that prevents me from seeing alt text, because on almost all platforms, seeing the alt requires having a screenreader or working hands. If you post a picture, is there info that you want somebody who CAN see the picture but DOESN’T have working hands to know? Write that in visible text. If you put that in the alt, you are explicitly excluding people like me. But you don’t have to overthink it. The description of the image itself is a simple concept. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Inclusion" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Inclusion</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Accessibility</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuotePost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTweet" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteTweet</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteToot" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteToot</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteBoost</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mstdn.ca/@DavidM_yeg" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">David Mitchell :CApride:</a> <blockquote>Mostly, just imagine you’re telling your friend over the phone about image you’re looking at and what they would need to know.</blockquote> Let's just say I'm a bit critical about that because, in my opinion, it doesn't work in the Fediverse. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jupiter Rowland</a> wrote the following <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/21735784-8443-430a-aa09-e0d9d00a40c2" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">post</a> Fri, 04 Oct 2024 23:30:02 +0200 You can't describe images in Fediverse posts like over the phoneAllegedly, a "good" advice for image descriptions is always to describe images like you'd describe them to someone on a landline phone. Sorry, but that's non-sense. At least for anything that goes significantly beyond a real-life cat photo. If you describe an image through a phone, you describe it to one person. Usually a person whom you know, so you've at least got a rough idea on what they need described. Even more importantly, you can ask that person what they want to know about the image if you don't know. And you get a reply. If you describe an image for a public Fediverse post, you describe it to millions of Fediverse users and billions of Web users. You can't know what they all want, nor can you generalise what they all want. And you can't even ask one of them what they need described before or while describing, much less all of them. In fact, you can't ask at all. And yet, you have to cater to everyone's needs the same and throw no-one under a bus. If I see a realistic chance that someone might be interested in some detail in one of my images, I will describe it. It won't be in the shorter description in the alt-text; instead, it will be in the long description which I've always put directly into the post so far, but whose placement I'm currently reconsidering. If something is unfamiliar enough to enough people that it requires an explanation, I will explain it in the long description. Right now, only meme posts are an exception. They don't need as much of a visual description as long as I stick to the template, and a poll has revealed that people do prefer externally linked third-party explanations over my own ones blowing the character count of the post out of proportion. This is the one time that I can safely assume that I actually know what most people want. @<a href="https://a.gup.pe/u/accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">accessibility group</a> @<a href="https://a.gup.pe/u/a11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">a11y group</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Inclusion" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Inclusion</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Accessibility</a> CC: @<a href="https://mstdn.ca/@monstreline" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Monstreline</a> @<a href="https://ohai.social/@i_cannot_today" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Claire (sometimes Carla)</a> @<a href="https://mstdn.social/@qurlyjoe" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">qurly(not curly)joe</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuotePost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTweet" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteTweet</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteToot" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteToot</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteBoost</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mstdn.ca/@monstreline" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Monstreline</a> @<a href="https://mstdn.social/@qurlyjoe" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">qurly(not curly)joe</a> @<a href="https://ohai.social/@i_cannot_today" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Claire (sometimes Carla)</a> One thing you could do is <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/alttext" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">search mastodon.social for the #</a><a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> hashtag which many put on their posts with alt-text. Also, <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/alttext" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">search mastodon.social for the #</a><a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextHallOfFame" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextHallOfFame</a> hashtag and follow @<a href="https://mastodon.social/@alttexthalloffame" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alt Text Hall of Fame</a>. However, I'm not sure if that will lead to the desired outcome. Checking Mastodon users' alt-texts and the reactions upon these was part of what <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/1e63be04-d96e-412a-ab47-aff18c5f9ad8" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">led myself to what one may argue is "overthinking" image descriptions for the Fediverse</a>. In fact, I ended up describing all my original images twice, including with a long image description in the post itself. And I'm constantly upping my game, improving my style and declaring old image descriptions obsolete because I keep learning new things and trying new things. Granted, you may not be inspired to go as far as I did, seeing as you've got 500 characters in posts whereas I have hundreds of thousands or even millions. But still, chances are that analysing other people's alt-texts may have you overthink image descriptions even more rather than less. For reference, here are my latest original image posts in reverse chronological order (the older, the more obsolete): <ul><li><a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/.well-known/apgateway/did:key:z6Mkmc3YmgUu5jTyhc6YqC8VjnMwmFtdjFFA45MHTqyBFaA2/item/b6ae326a-c207-46dd-836b-6bc2b6a3509c" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Happy 17th birthday, OSgrid!</a></li><li><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Universal Campus: The mother of all mega-regions</a></li><li><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/136f021c-06cb-4e38-abe6-2bf37fd521d8" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Inspector Jupiter Rowland, Scotland Yard...</a></li><li><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/c8a14063-b4e2-48fa-baf9-cb4faef7225b" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The upcycling and upgrading of Clutterfly furniture continues</a></li><li><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/8c2b4728-dda5-498b-9f84-2f11e163a4a5" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">When old meets new: Arcadia Asylum exhibits at OpenSimFest 2023</a></li></ul>In each case, the post including image(s) is hidden behind a summary and content warning. In the first post, the images themselves are additionally hidden behind a spoiler tag as an extra safety measure due to their potentially sensitive content. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CharacterLimit" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CharacterLimit</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CharacterLimits" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CharacterLimits</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=OpenSim" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenSim</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=OpenSimulator" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenSimulator</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Metaverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Metaverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=VirtualWorlds" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">VirtualWorlds</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mstdn.social/@qurlyjoe" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">qurly(not curly)joe</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.social/@jztusk" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">jz.tusk</a> If you have a lot to describe, and/or if you need to explain your image, the best you can do is to give two descriptions for the same image. A "short", purely visual description in the alt-text, also to satisfy the alt-text police and the Mastodon HOA who demand there be an alt-text for all images, no matter what. And a long, detailed description that includes all explanations, and that goes into the post. Yes, it will exceed 500 characters. But if you regularly have to describe that much, it's best to move someplace with a much higher character limit. Spreading a long description across multiple Mastodon toots can only be a short-term kluge. Misskey offers you hard-coded 3,000 characters. All its forks have configurable character limits which tend to be higher. Akkoma offers you at least 5,000 characters. Friendica offers you 200,000 characters, but adding alt-text isn't as straight-forward as on Mastodon. The limit I have here on Hubzilla is even higher; I don't know how high it is, but it doesn't really matter because AFAIK Mastodon rejects all posts from outside with over 100,000 characters. But I don't post images here anymore because Hubzilla cannot make Mastodon blank out sensitive images. I have two channels for images on (streams) now which can make Mastodon hide images, @<a class="" href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/.well-known/apgateway/did:key:z6Mkmc3YmgUu5jTyhc6YqC8VjnMwmFtdjFFA45MHTqyBFaA2/actor" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jupiter Rowland's (streams) outlet</a> and @<a class="" href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/.well-known/apgateway/did:key:z6Mkf2dhUa65zBYCNVqs3AHyt8uPixauZ7bPzEJn15LJANsd/actor" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jupiter's Fedi-Memes on (streams)</a>. (streams) has a fixed character limit of over 24,000,000 that's defined by database field size. That is, I rarely post images nowadays. Explaining my Fediverse memes is tedious enough already. But properly describing and explaining my original virtual world images so that everyone gets them takes up so much time and energy (one image post always takes up several hours, and I touch-type on a hardware keyboard) that there are practically always months between two image posts. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Misskey" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Misskey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forkey" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forkey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forkeys" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forkeys</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Akkoma" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Akkoma</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CharacterLimit" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CharacterLimit</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CharacterLimits" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CharacterLimits</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://a.gup.pe/u/accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">accessibility group</a> @<a href="https://a.gup.pe/u/a11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">a11y group</a> New rant/article: <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/1e63be04-d96e-412a-ab47-aff18c5f9ad8" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">I have learned a lot about describing images according to Mastodon's standards, and I want to share my knowledge, but I haven't learned enough</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Inclusion" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Inclusion</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Accessibility</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.online/@sunflowerinrain" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">sunflowerinrain</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.green/@Tarnport" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tarnport</a> From what I've read, a digital photograph is considered the default. So for brevity reasons, it must not be mentioned. Any other media must be mentioned, whether it's a painting, a screenshot from a social media app, a scanned analogue photograph, a flowchart, a CAD blueprint, a 3-D rendering or whatever. But an alt-text must never start with "Image of", "Picture of" or "Photo of". That's considered bad style and a waste of characters and screen-reading time. If the medium is not mentioned, digital photograph falls into its place as a default. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://chaos.social/@crypticcelery" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">crypticcelery</a> There's generally too little feedback on image descriptions. There should be more praise for really good image descriptions, and there should be more constructive criticism. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Accessibility</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://chaos.social/@crypticcelery" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">crypticcelery</a> I'm not quite sure if that's such a good idea. I mean, it may make trying to replace other users' alt-texts with your own ones commonplace. I mean, Mastodon in particular is escalating from going against no alt-text to going against non-descriptive alt-text to going against bad alt-text to going against not enough alt-text. The days of "better than nothing" are over. Mastodon is heading straight for going against any kinds of alt-text that isn't optimal, for any individual definition of optimal. It's dragging the rest of the Fediverse with itself by and by. And if suggesting replacement alt-texts for any alt-texts that someone personally deems less than optimal becomes the norm, you'll end up with disputes and flame wars over what's the optimal alt-text in lots of image post threads. That's because there is absolutely no consensus on what's "enough" or "optimal" alt-text, or if there's such a thing as "too much" alt-text. That's also because people who are interested in accessibility don't talk with each other, neither alt-text activists nor blind or visually-impaired people. Too many people think they have the One True Recipe for describing any possible image. What makes matters more difficult are obscure edge-cases that don't really fit into any existing scheme. Not all images are cat photos, event posters or social media screenshots. There's even less consensus on describing these edge-cases. <blockquote>On the other end: Would you be annoyed by this?</blockquote> Truth be told, it's highly unlikely in my case. If I spend hours or even days describing one single image in 900 characters in a 1,500-character-altogether alt-text and, on top of that, additionally in tens of thousands of characters of long description in the post itself (no, seriously, I do that, and I've got proof), I don't think that someone will come with two even more detailed and even more massive image descriptions and ask me to replace mine with theirs. But if someone came and tried to pressure me into replacing my 1,500-character alt-text with their 200-character alt-text and delete my tens-of-thousands-of-characters long description entirely, then I'd be annoyed. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Accessibility</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://social.treehouse.systems/@angelastella" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ángela Stella Matutina</a> I'm talking about people who can't access alt-text due to physical disabilities. People with a strong tremor who cannot move a mouse cursor onto an image and keep it there steadily. They exist. It was one of them who told me that explanations don't belong into alt-text. Quadriplegic people or amputees. They operate their computers by poking the keyboard with a headpointer strapped to their forehead or with a kind of pen that they hold in their mouth. They have no way of using pointing devices whatsoever. They cannot move a mouse cursor onto an image because they don't have a mouse cursor. They use their computers entirely over the keyboard. All these people do not necessarily have a way of making alt-text a) appear and b) stay where it is for long enough for them to read it. If you regularly have a lot to explain in your images, don't put these explanations into the alt-text, just because you've only got 500 characters in your toots. Instead, move someplace in the Fediverse that offers more characters (e.g. Misskey: 3,000; Akkoma: 5,000; Friendica: unlimited). #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@alttexthalloffame" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alt Text Hall of Fame</a> @<a href="https://sfba.social/@dbloom" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">David Bloom</a> Yes. Explanations, or any other information available neither in the image nor in the post text, must never ever go into the alt-text. That's because not everyone can access alt-text. And to those who can't access alt-text, any information exclusively available in alt-text is inaccessible and therefore lost. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://friendica.world/profile/dandylover1" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Georgiana Brummell</a> @<a href="https://partyon.xyz/@nat" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Nat Oleander</a> Well, technically speaking, the long description isn't alt-text. What went into the actual alt-text of the image were 1,402 characters of visual description + 97 characters of notice that there's a long description in the post. The over 60,000 characters went into the post text body, right below the image itself. I could have put the long description into the alt-text. But it would have been a nightmare for blind or visually-impaired people because screen readers can't navigate alt-text. Also, Mastodon, Glitch, Hometown, Misskey, Calckey, Firefish, Iceshrimp, CherryPick, Sharkey, Catodon and the other Mastodon and Misskey forks chop long alt-texts from outside off at the 1,500-character mark. Mastodon would simply have deleted almost 59,000 characters from my image description on their side, had I put it into the alt-text. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://foggyminds.com/profile/shiri" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Shiri Bailem</a> @<a href="https://kitsunes.club/@gwenthekween" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Gwen, the kween fops :neofox_flag_trans: :sheher:</a> @<a href="https://ellieayla.net/@ellie" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ellie</a> That's my suggestion, too: Always describe the meme image as far as necessary. You may repeat yourself, but there may always be someone who is not familiar with that meme template. What I'm not entirely sure about is how to explain memes, if at all. I mean, if you describe the image in the alt-text, should you also explain it in the post itself, especially if you've got lots of characters to use up? Particularly if your adaptation touches an extremely niche topic that most people won't understand without enough explanation (the Fediverse beyond Mastodon, super-obscure 3-D virtual worlds etc.)? Should you give explanations for the template? For your adaptation and the topic? For both? Not at all? Should the template be explained alone or with extra explanations for concepts included in the template (image macro, advice animal, snowclone, reaction image, 4chan, Something Awful...)? If you can link to external explanations, is it better to do that? Or are external links too inconvenient, and it's better to write all explanations yourself? Just so you know what can happen when you go all the way: <a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/item/8829de04-af65-4fa5-a6fa-438103c7d6c8" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The first time I made a Fediverse meme post for my new meme channel on (streams)</a>, I went for what I took for maximum reader convenience. I ended up with one explanation for my adaptation, one for the template, five to explain the template explanations and the template explanation explanations, one for the topic and one to explain the topic explanation. All just so that nobody in the Fediverse would have to look anything up. I mean, not everyone is familiar with the "One Does Not Simply Walk Into Mordor" template, and next to nobody knows what FEP-ef61 is, right? But I ended up with some 25,000 characters worth of explanations. And I thought that can't possibly be that more convenient than external links. Currently, it seems to me like people would love to have explanations for everything readily available in each meme post, but if you tell them how long these explanations will end up, they'll nope out and prefer links all of a sudden. If my assumptions should be wrong, feel free to tell me. Anyway, you may look around <a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/channel/fedimemes_on_streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">my meme channel</a> and check the alt-texts and see if the posts are explained and the images are described sufficiently. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Memes" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Memes</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMemes" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMemes</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://friendica.world/profile/dandylover1" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Georgiana Brummell</a> I'd say not everyone would consider almost 1,000 characters of image description in a 1,500-character alt-text accessible. And even fewer people would consider a long image description in the post itself that's tens of thousands of characters long accessible if your screen reader spends an hour or several rambling it down. My most extreme case is a post with only one image. That one image is described twice like all my halfway recent original images. The short description in the alt-text is a bit over 1,400 characters long which barely leaves any room for the note that there is also a long description in the post itself. That long description is over 60,000 characters long. I'm not kidding. It took me two full days from getting up to going to bed to research for it and write it. Now, there are a few dozen bits and pieces of text all over the image. At the resolution at which I've posted the image, two of them are ever so barely legible for sighted people. They're on a large logo on a building. Four more, two of them on that logo, too, two more on a sign on an easel, are illegible, but still visible. At least more on signs inside the building are visible, but they can't easily be identified as text. All the others are so tiny that they're invisible. It takes the long image description to even know where they are, for example, on the control panels of teleporters. And yet, they are all within the borders of the image. And I can transcribe them. I can't read them in the image, but I can go to the place shown in the image and take closer looks. Unfortunately, the rule or guideline that any and all text in an image must be transcribed verbatim does not take into consideration text that can't be read in the image, but that can be sourced and thus transcribed by whoever posts the image. No confirmation, no exception. And so I have to assume that I have to transcribe illegible text as well. And so I do transcribe them all. But there's no way for me to put all these text transcripts into the alt-text, not if I want to keep Mastodon, Misskey and their forks from chopping it off at the 1,500-character mark. I'd also have to explain where all these pieces of text are, after all. And so the text transcripts are only available in the 60,000-character monster of a long image description. It isn't really accessible to expect blind users to have their screen readers ramble and ramble and ramble for hours, just to get information that should actually belong into the alt-text which, in turn, shouldn't be longer than 200 characters. On the other hand, it doesn't really seem accessible to me if I expect people to ask me to describe things in the image for them. It rather feels sloppy, if not out-right ableist to not describe everything that someone could possibly want to know right away. The problem with my images is that they're renderings from very obscure 3-D virtual worlds. This means that nobody knows what anything in these images looks like unless they can see these images. This, in turn, means that I cannot expect anyone to know what something in my images looks like anyway. They don't. At the same time, I can't expect everyone to not care about my images. In fact, I expect the very topic of 3-D virtual worlds that actually exist to make people curious. At this point, it doesn't matter what's important in my images within the context of the post. Sighted people will go explore the new and unknown world by taking closer looks at all the big and small details in the image. But blind or visually-impaired people may be just as curious. They may want the same chance to explore this new world by experiencing what's in that one image. Denying them the same chances as sighted people is ableist. But giving them this chance requires an absolutely titanic image description. Sure, I describe lots of details which a sighted person can't possibly recognise when looking at the image, especially not at the resolution of the image as I've posted it. But I simply can't keep telling blind or visually-impaired people that certain things in the image can't be recognised due to the image resolution. It feels lazy, like weaseling out. I mean, I can see all these details. Not in the image, but where the image was made, simply by walking closer to them or moving the camera closer to them. If there are two dark objects inside a building that may or may not be plants, but that can't be identified as plants by looking at the image, why shouldn't I describe them as follows: "On the sides of the teleport panel, there are two identical açaí palms in square terracotta pots with wide rims. Like the other potted plants, these mostly dark green plants with long pointy leaves are kept at an indoor-compatible size, namely about three and a half metres or eleven and a half feet tall. Also, like the other potted plants, they are made of only four flat surfaces with partially transparent pictures of the plant on them, arranged in angles of 45 degrees to one another." If there's room for improvement in my image descriptions, I improve my future image descriptions and declare my past image descriptions outdated. In fact, the 60,000-character-long description is outdated because it's bad style to describe dimension using measures. Instead, dimensions should be described by comparing them with something everyone is familiar with like body parts. Right now, by the way, I'm upping my game at describing avatars, using rules and guidelines for describing people which I've discovered over the last few months. The last time I've described an avatar, I've done so in about 7,000 characters, but according to my new discoveries, I may have missed something. However, I can't go into so much detail while still making my image descriptions short enough that a screen reader can read through them in under a minute. CC: @<a href="https://partyon.xyz/@nat" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Nat Oleander</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Metaverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Metaverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=VirtualWorlds" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">VirtualWorlds</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://partyon.xyz/@nat" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Nat Oleander</a> It's just a pity that if you post about an obscure enough niche topic like I do, it's the more difficult to make image posts perfectly accessible to everyone, the more obscure the topic is. For the more obscure the topic is, the more you have to describe, and the more you have to explain. (Caution: Never put explanations into alt-text! They must go where everyone can access them.) I currently write the longest image descriptions in the whole Fediverse by a wide margin. But they may not actually be accessible enough, even though I describe all my original images twice. The short descriptions in the alt-text don't always contain text transcripts, especially not all of them, and being only short descriptions, they aren't full, detailed visual descriptions either. The long descriptions for the same images in the post regularly end up with a five-digit character count. They may not be accessible because they're way too long. But sometimes they're the only place where all text transcripts can be found. And they are the only place where explanations can be found. So the consequence should be that I quit posting my original images because they're impossible to make perfectly accessible to everyone, at least as long as there is no rock-solid definition for what's actually required in image descriptions in my obscure edge-case. But there isn't even any consensus on whether text that's illegible or that's so tiny that it's basically invisible must be transcribed if it can be sourced. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland<blockquote>Don't hesitate to ask if you're unsure of something, but never think that we don't notice your effort.</blockquote> I do have a few questions, specifically because my image posts have gone unnoticed by blind or visually-impaired users so far. Judging and assuming from the information I've gathered so far, my original images require very extensive and detailed descriptions. A full description is too long for alt-text, so what I do is write a full description with all text transcripts and all necessary explanations, put it into the post text body and then condense a shorter, but still long alt-text from it. What's your stance on this method of describing the same image twice over? Also, where would you personally prefer a long description? In the post itself? Or in an external document that's linked into the post? If you're on a phone app, remember that the external document will inevitably open your Web browser. Do you prefer images described, based on what a sighted person can see in the image as it is posted? Or do you prefer a description that is not limited by the restriction of the image itself, for example, assuming an infinite image resolution and an infinite zoom factor that would let sighted people theoretically see even tiniest details? If I mention something in my image description of which you don't know what it looks like, do you need a detailed visual description? Concerning text transcripts: Let's assume a bit of text in an image is too small to be legible for sighted people, but I can read it at the original source, so I can transcribe it nonetheless. Shall I transcribe it? What about if said text is too small to be recognisable as text or so tiny that's it's practically invisible? I mean, after all, the concept of image resolution should not matter to totally blind people, so writing that a piece of text can't be read because the resolution of the image is too low ought to sound like a lame excuse for skimping a transcript. If there's a building in one of my images, I can safely assume that you don't know what that one specific building looks like, so I guess I can also assume that you need it described. If I could, I would do so using architectural terms and then explaining all these architectural terms right after using them. Would you say that's the correct way? Because that's why I avoid having realistic buildings in my images. If there's an image in my image, do you need it described? At a level that I can source right where the image is without moving away too far, or at a level that I can only source by moving farther away to the place shown in the image? What about an image in an image in my image? (I'm serious. I've actually described images within images within my image, but I've stopped when this was about to go out of hand due to there being too many to describe.) I'm currently working on a series of posts with images showing a virtual-world avatar in various but similar outfits; in fact, I have been since last year. I may have questions later regarding at what level of detail I have to describe that avatar. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

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