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@downey
Exactly what I thought. I don't think the arguments you're responding to are made in good faith anyway. The clue is here;
@delroth
> AGPL tries to enforce usage restrictions, which are against Free Software principles
Copyleft is not a "usage restriction", it's a prohibition on such restrictions (via proprietary re-use).
> via weird copyright hacks that don't really work
Factually wrong. GPL has been enforced in court on multiple occasions by SFLC, SFC and others.
@strypey you're fighting a strawman. I never said that copyleft was a usage restriction, or that GPL didn't work.
I said that AGPL's attempt at using a copyright license to try and enforce terms on usage (but not really, wink wink) is an untested hack which is full of loopholes.
I'm unsure why you're inserting yourself in a discussion about open source licenses when you don't seem to differentiate GPL from AGPL.
@delroth
> you're fighting a strawman
I apologize for misrepresenting your point. It might help if your posts laid out your argument in a bit more detail, so we don't have to guess at what the meat of the argument might be.
> you don't seem to differentiate GPL from AGPL.
Since you've clarified that your comments were targeted at clause 13 of AGPL, not copyleft itself, you're right that GPL enforcement is off-topic. Again, my apologies.
@delroth
> AGPL's attempt at using a copyright license to try and enforce terms on usage
IANAL but my lay understanding is that copyright prevents me making a copy of a piece of code, without permission from the copyright holder. If I can't copy it, I can't use it in any way. A copyright license - which all software licenses are, libre or otherwise - gives me permission to copy, and the copyright holder can use it to enforce any limits on usage they like.
(1/2)
@strypey @delroth @wwahammy@floss.social @downey there have been arguments about how to scope the permissions and obligations of a copyright license.
Some argue that you can write any terms you want in a copyright license. I don't know of any lawyers that say that is a good idea, as you can run afoul of copyright misuse defenses (at least in some jurisdictions).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_misuse
@msw
> you can run afoul of copyright misuse defenses (at least in some jurisdictions)
Intriguing. I didn't know these existed. Might be worth pointing this out to the more militant factions of the Shared Source crowd (eg the ones who use the pro-vaccination software licenses).
@strypey @delroth @wwahammy@floss.social @downey the Vaccine License was a strawman put forward pseudonymously by Bruce Perens, who is definitely not a proponent for those licenses that attempt to compel behaviors unrelated to the licensed work.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vTsc1m78BUk
@strypey @delroth @wwahammy@floss.social @downey SSPLv1, as a modification to GPLv3, is framed as a copyright license. And so lawyers have pointed out that a misuse defense could be an issue. https://www.processmechanics.com/2018/10/18/the-server-side-public-license-is-flawed/
@strypey @delroth @wwahammy@floss.social @downey the copyright misuse was covered in the community review of SSPLv1. I agree with @richardfontana that it is probably of secondary importance.
https://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license-review_lists.opensource.org/2018-October/003748.html
@msw @delroth
> the Vaccine License was a strawman put forward pseudonymously by Bruce Perens
Really, that's a relief. I feel a bit silly now, although it's nice to know the person who punked me was Bruce Perens, who I highly respect. That hoax license is a really good satire of what's wrong with that whole class of morality licenses.
SPPL and the various other 'I can use yours but you can't use mine' licenses are a different kettle of fish of course...
What I keep asking people from the various factions of the Shared Source crowd, is what would happen to their software, and the services they use it to run, if all their dependencies adopted a similar 'I can use yours but you can't use mine' license. Not a single one of them has an answer.