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In my book, a standard isn't open if you have to pay $$ to obtain/use it.
That is, ISO standards aren't open.
@kkarhan@mstdn.social@encthenet EXACTLY!
#OpenStandards require neither #licensing nor #paywall the specs.
@encthenet in fact, I'd argue that even Amazon's shitty #S3 #API is an #OpenStandard since there are multiple drop-in reimplemetations and unlike say #Oracle, #Amazon doesn't even try to ban those.
I'd have to look/think closer to make a decision on that. I *GUESS* S3 (HTTP) is fully documented and it is free to access/read, so at first glance is an #OpenStandard.
@encthenet Case in point, only #MultiVendor & #MultiProvider solutions survive, and those must inherently be #OpenSource & #OpenStandards...
The few exceptions are either old legacy shit and/or have only worse-licensed competitiors.
That said I still think they should be free of charge. @twitter@jonsneyers one of the JPEG XL authors would also agree with that, and they are actually trying to make a difference in that space. https://www.theregister.com/2021/07/31/iso_paywall_battle/
@erk @encthenet Well, whilst #ISO, #DIN, #ANSI & Co. only take existing standards and reward them with their blessing, I think they should mandate those to be truly open.
For example I'd cnsider the acceptance of #OOXML to be the biggest Mistake of ISO since not only did they already accepted #OpenDocument as superior option, but at >6.000 (!!!) pages "specification" it's practically impossible to implement OOXML by anyone but #Microsoft.
That one is a bit of an outlier, so much in fact that there is a whole Wikipedia about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standardization_of_Office_Open_XML
But the standard of OOXML is actually free to access through ECMA-376, but even then I would not consider it a very open standard because of the process of which it was created.
https://www.ecma-international.org/publications-and-standards/standards/ecma-376/
@erk @encthenet I'd also not consider it an "open standard" since it basically relies on multiple, non-#FLOSS technologies, some even #patented by #Microsoft - to be used.
In fact, the reference implementation is #MicrosoftOffice and there are no 100% feature-complete alternatives.
It only exists to undermine #OpenDocument and sabotage it's deserved market dominance.
@kkarhan @erk @encthenet MS also lobbied that vote heavily. It was not made as a technical decision at ISO.
@davidwmaxwell @erk @encthenet OFC not.
Why else would they've agreed on >6.000 pages of #bloatware within less than half the time it took for #SVG [ ~ 1.000 pages]...
Except that there are other forums that produce standards that are open/free. I've participated in an OASIS standard. In checking to see if ecma made all their standards free, I came across this:
https://www.nist.gov/standardsgov/standards-organizations-offer-free-access-their-standards
Quite a few orgs making their standards free (though a number of the ones on that list have limitations).
Also, requiring people/companies to pay doubly ensures that not everyone's voice is heard. It's already time consuming enough, but having to pay thousands of dollars for the honor of spending your free time to try to fight against corporations isn't something most OSS people want to do.
There's a reason most RFCs are corporate sponsored.
Also companies would probably also want standards that are free to access and it is probably those that need to lobby ISO and the national bodies into making the changes that are needed.
For example Adobe, Apryse and Foxit are sponsoring access to the PDF standard https://pdfa.org/sponsored-standards/
I hope that examples like this is only the start and that we will see ISO to rework how it works in the coming years.
@charlotte @erk @encthenet EXACTLY!
#Amazon has a vested interest to act a bit more longterm.
Unlike #Microsoft's #EEE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace%2C_extend%2C_and_extinguish#Examples_by_Microsoft ] they want #S3 to become the de-facto standard, as they already dominate #CloudComputing and making shit easier on their platform will only work if it isn't exclusive.
Even if that means Microsoft ( #Azure ), #OVH, #Hetzner and even #Proxmox can do the same...
It also fixes a lot of issues #iSCSI has...