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JuneSim63

"We face the greatest predicament humankind has confronted: the erosion and possible collapse of our life-support systems. Its speed and scale have taken even scientists by surprise. The potential impacts are greater than any recent pandemic, or any war we have suffered. Yet the effort to persuade people of the need for action has been left almost entirely to either the private or voluntary sectors. And it simply does not work"
George Monbiot


theguardian.com/commentisfree/

The Guardian · Dear ministers, I am a climate crisis campaigner: nationalise me right nowBy George Monbiot

@junesim63 To persuade people... If they're not already persuaded by all the horrible things happening around them and to them directly... Well, it's already a lost cause.

@junesim63
pretty example how #state #fetishism can lead to idiocy. This guy seriously wants the government finance the campaigning against its own climate policy (which of course is a prevention policy in the interest of the ruling class). It's baffling that even intelligent people still see the state as kind of a neutral actor representing the interests of the people.
Wake up: The state is already in charge and could enforce effective measures. Guess why it isn't doing so?

@junesim63

George has been putting some great stuff out here recently. Completely on point, though I personally don't think he's adequately publicly acknowledging how much trouble we're in

@junesim63 @GeofCox

"The plural of incremental change is not system change. The plural of incremental change is failure."

Nicely said, George. Bravely demanding system change and expecting the state to organize it for us, will surely work. It will, right? Right?

@snippet

I think you've missed Monbiot's point there. It's not that he expects the government alone to do anything for us, it's that without government playing a role the odds are stacked against us; it's that in many respects there is no serious alternative to government intervention.
Unless you can suggest one ?

@junesim63

@GeofCox @junesim63

Yes I can suggest a serious alternative: collapse.

I'm just pointing out what experience has shown: writing articles about "government playing a role" hasn't made government playing a role. Do you expect the next article to change that? Or the one after?

So, what would make the system change?

@snippet

If the only serious alternative to agitating for change - which has been shown to work many times in the past - and which has generally included writing articles to try to win hearts and minds - is to sit back, do nothing, and accept a 'collapse' in which millions of the most vulnerable people would probably suffer and die, then I'm still going along with George. Aren't you, really ?

@junesim63

@GeofCox

I am angry for a lot of reasons. I value George and his work. However …

… there's a contradiction: First George appeals to the revolutionary insight that incremental steps won't do it (or at least not in time). Then he goes on to suggest the next meager incremental step, one he well knows won't be implemented anyway.

Agitating would be something else.

@junesim63
@GeofCox

p. s. Geof, you're wrong in assuming speaking out the word "collapse" means sitting back and doing nothing. There'd still be a lot to do to organize living in it together.

@junesim63

@snippet

The thing is, there are lots of ways of working for social change, and they tend not to be mutually exclusive - indeed, if you look at past successes - the Suffragettes, for example, of the 60s black civil rights movement - they have generally combined many complementary approaches - including writing articles.

I don't believe in apocalyptic scenarios or 'all or nothing' prescriptions. I think the truth is simpler: we all do what we can, both in terms of changing our own lifestyles and as political actors, and this contributes to mitigating climate/ecological breakdown, and/or adapting to it.

We won't avoid all extreme weather events or their social consequences - it's already too late for that - but that doesn't mean we don't have time to mitigate future disasters.

@junesim63

@GeofCox

I'm not averse against writing. I'm only riled by an article that demonstrates its own futility.

I don't believe in apocalyptic scenarios either. I don't have to believe, when I can weigh probabilities and observe.

We always will have time to mitigate future disasters (as long as there's a we), Geof. That's a truism, not a plan.

@junesim63

@semiprime most people *are* persuaded of the need for action! And that's new! And it took a huge lift on the part of activists assisted by massive climate disasters.

The problem is there's still that gap between thinking it's important and thinking it's important TO THEM... such that THEY PERSONALLY need to make change. (And of course the bad actors convincing them they don't)

That will change, slowly, as things get worse. We need to keep working to make it go faster.
@junesim63

@junesim63 as much as I respect Monbiot, this is wide of the mark. Governments will do something when the people demand it. And they won't demand it until it happens directly to them. And some, not even then. Many will proudly burn their children's world.

The good news: more people are waking up every day and working for change. But there are no shortcuts to that, George, sorry.

(And besides, you can't leap to the end: first step is to have government stop subsidizing oil on a massive scale)