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@Strandjunker@mstdn.socialI don’t know who needs to hear this, but “I was only following orders” was rejected as a defense at the Nuremberg Trials.
@Strandjunker Yeah, and a big part of why they’re attacking ALL non-authoritarian countries - so the world’s wealthy and their destructive corporate, law enforcement, and scuzzy civilization minions can’t be held accountable.
@Bookworm33333 @Strandjunker They will lose this battle and face justice.
@Strandjunker which is why US military are trained to refuse illegal orders (I bet that would make Trump's head explode)
3946] @tobinbaker @Strandjunker German civil servants are personally responsible for the legality of their official acts, unless an order is confirmed upon protest.
@tessarakt @tobinbaker @Strandjunker Does it help? WWII Nazis were almost obsessed with law. Every atrocity was legal. In fact, thanks to their following the law, their deeds were documented so well that they could be held accountable afterwards.
@tobinbaker
Are they? Or is this irony? @Strandjunker
"Service members have a legal, enforceable duty to obey only lawful orders from those authorized to give orders (violating them is prosecutable by court-martial under Articles 90 and 92 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice), and a legal excuse (and moral grounds) for disobedience under the limited circumstances of receiving an unlawful order. The issue of presidential immunity for the commander in chief—whether absolute or presumed—is absolutely irrelevant to the underlying lawfulness of the order itself."
https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/can-the-military-disobey-orders-in-the-seal-team-6-hypothetical
/∞
∫ I hope someone points out that
1. Treaties between countries are law within the countries that sign them,
2. the NATO treaty requires members to resolve disputes diplomatically
3. therefore any order to carry out military action against another NATO country is an illegal order and must be refused, REGARDLESS of what the president says, even if it comes directly from him.
@Strandjunker The United States also executed the Rosenbergs for treason.
@Methylcobalamin @Strandjunker did they claim to be following orders?
@Methylcobalamin @Strandjunker The Rosenbergs were convicted of espionage, not treason: treason has a very specific definition stated in the U.S. Constitution and for technical reasons, what they did was not treason. At the time the U.S. Constitution was written treason was being used in England to get rid of the king's political opponents, and we didn't want charges of treason to be used in that way here.
@Strandjunker Whenever anyone says that, I remind them of the fact that that's what the NAZIs used to say...
@Strandjunker Same thing goes to the voters. Your ignorance does not pardon you from the consequences of your vote. The only reason you feel less guilty or accountable for the damage and suffering your vote caused is because it's distributed across your fellow voters, you are still equally responsible.
@Strandjunker I thought that only Germans have this subservience. According to "Experiment in Germany. The Story of an American Intelligence Officer" from Padover they were all only following orders.
Read up on the Milgram Experiment then, although really you should already be wary of any statement like "only [nation] have [attribute]" because like, obvious bullshit, right?
@bjo @Strandjunker Germans are the biggest ethnic group in the USA, so...
@Strandjunker the Trump admin cabinet want to test - especially Marco Rubio
@Strandjunker and while trump may have been given immunity by a joke of a SCOTUS, his cabinet on down have not.
@Strandjunker The problem is that there are no Tirals happening now.
@auser @Strandjunker only after defeat
@Strandjunker Everybody. Every single person in the U.S.of A. needs to hear that.
@Strandjunker I think when this is over most of DOGE will be serving time in prison.
One would hope so, but dear leader has done so much wrong and hasn't seen a jail cell...
@Strandjunker I'm not remembering the recent event causing your recall of This
@Strandjunker
... and later in France at Maurice Papon's trial. He was a prefect under Vichy govt during wwII, and was keen to be ahead of demands from Vichy.
This is a question I am asking myself : when (if not already done) things go weird here, what will be the proportion of followers vs protesters ?
Macron agenda has migrant hate, army budget ready (where does it come from ?), authoritarism and negationism.
Would be happy not to be right on this.
@Strandjunker United States? black sites and cocentration camps, yea, they all just follow orders there
@Strandjunker I know *exactly* who needs to hear this, but they're not going to listen...
@Strandjunker Thinking about what stopped Hitler and what is needed to stop Rump
@jabgoe2089 let me be more precise: Ethnic Germans. People like Trump and Eisenhower and Thiel and the Koch brothers...
@jabgoe2089 Once met a guy in Egypt with a German passport who did not speak German, but English with a broad German accent.
I would have considered him German. You obviously not. Maybe we have a different understanding of the term.
@jabgoe2089 Then there are the Pennsilfanie Deitsche, who are US citizens but speak a German dialect. If I understand you right this would make them German in your book, but they are in the USA and you say there are no Germans there....
(same goes for a few other groups like the Texasdeutsche)