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Understanding the Divide: Libertarianism vs. Libertarian Socialism

🔍 Anglo-Saxon libertarians are radical anti-statists, emphasizing individual freedom often at the expense of collective well-being. In contrast, libertarian socialism advocates for local collectivism and decentralized federalism, seeking to abolish the state and private ownership of production. 🏛️🤝 #Libertarianism #LibertarianSocialism #SocialJustice #Collectivism In contemporary political discourse,…

homohortus31.wordpress.com/202

Homo Hortus · Understanding the Divide: Libertarianism vs. Libertarian Socialism🔍 Anglo-Saxon libertarians are radical anti-statists, emphasizing individual freedom often at the expense of collective well-being. In contrast, libertarian socialism advocates for local collectivi…

TL; DR: Anti-socialism among anti-socialist Christians seems to really be about #authoritarianism (about 500 words)

A lot of #Christian groups (arguably all of them, if you go back to Acts chapters 2-4) have a history of socialism or communism or collectivism. The most prominent modern American sects have become rabidly anti-socialist since the mid-20th century. My former group, the #LDS church, actively practiced and even preached as mandatory doctrine a version of #communism for most of a century.

The anti-socialist Christian sects have various ways of explaining away the 180 they pulled on #collectivism, whether that took a few decades or a few centuries. The Mormons tend, in my experience, to say it is God's ultimate plan, but humans are dumb and selfish and not ready, yet, so they fucked it up (never mind that this rationale relies on an Authorized LDS History in which the "United Order" only lasted for a few years in the mid-1800s when, in reality, it persisted in many areas for decades longer).

Whatever the other justifications, Mormons will eventually arrive at, "Unlike heathen imitations, our system was good because God was in charge." Of course this actually means a small number of God's appointed men were in charge, though Mormons will not usually see an important distinction between these two concepts.

The explanation of why Mormons no longer practice #socialism (at that scale, anyway) never includes the idea that putting a few men in charge of the material welfare of a much larger group of people might be a problem. No, it's always "people are too selfish", implying it's the governed who are responsible for the system's failure, not the governors or the system's structure.

Opposition to "communism" and "socialism" in LDS (and, AFAIK, evangelical) groups during the Cold War relied heavily on standard American anticommunist images of bread lines, political purges, gulags, political prisoners, stifled free speech, propaganda press, crushed dissent, etc. It took me a long time to start seeing this as a shell game: Socialism is bad because lack of freedom. Evidence: economic catastrophes, restriction of rights, abuses of citizens, which seem more about authoritarianism or totalitarianism than socialist principles. Nope, it's socialist principles that are the problem. Many people have noticed that the loudest followers of the Guy Who Said We Should All Share seem to also be saying that sharing is evil.

Side note: it goes without saying you should never, ever suggest that an authoritarian religion also relies on restriction of freedom, unless you want to become persona non grata in your own community. I currently believe that a lot of the apparent insanity we see on the American religious right is driven by hyperlocal concerns about friendship, community, fitting in, etc.

Back to the main argument: I suspect any observations about authoritarianism in Christian socialist/communist history are aggressively discouraged within anti-socialist Christian churches because those churches still rely on centralized authoritarian systems for their existence. Freedom is all well and good, but too much freedom (defined by the people in charge) would be *gasp* #anarchy.

Continued thread

They are closely related to the jerkoffs who modify diesel pickups for #RollingCoal, spewing out clouds of carbon whenever they see anything that triggers their delicate #fragile #toxic ideal of #masculinity, like LGBT or BLM flags, or a Prius. They become instantly enraged at the very notion that people live different lives with different values from theirs, but they are the ones constantly accusing others of #groupthink and #collectivism. They literally worship at the altar of #conformity.

I'd never respect a mask ban.

Main reason for this legislation: Anti-genocide activists who engage in collectivist action are by my eye 10000% more likely to wear masks than the average American. Look at the footage & see for yourself.

This is just more crackdown on the same people, with the immunocompromised as collateral.

I'm not sure why nobody else has pointed this out. 🤔

America is already a fascist, ableist country that seeks to Other / Exclude.

Some states more openly so than others.

(And this shit reminds me when a southern state's Childrens Hospital was demanding staff take off their masks in February 2020 because it was 'concerning patients.'

Many staff said "lol no". And nothing happened to them.

Fuck the pigs, sue for emotional hardship & damages if arrested.)

The reactionary notion of #collectivism is often used to discredit various left-wing policies, ranging from taxation to social welfare. It's also portrayed as incompatible with individualism.

However, this overlooks how #inequality limits individual freedom. Socialists aim to create conditions where everyone can pursue their aspirations without the constant struggle for survival, through collective efforts like public services and economic redistribution.

#jacobin
znetwork.org/znetarticle/dont-

ZNetworkDon’t Fear “Collectivism”The capacity of the reactionary mind to invent catchall signifiers of supposed left-wing depravity often seems limitless. But in the canon of conservative
Don’t Fear “Collectivism”

https://jacobin.com/2024/04/collectivism-individualism-socialism/

> The socialist objective of securing shelter, leisure time, and economic well-being is about creating a foundation upon which everyone can pursue their dreams, curiosities, and ambitions — without having to constantly worry about their mere survival.

#socialism #collectivism #individualism #jacobin #economics

Currently reading on shortcomings of the 'individualism'/'collectivism' dichotomy:

Wong, Y. J., Wang, S.-Y., & Klann, E. M. (2018). The emperor with no clothes: A critique of collectivism and individualism. Archives of Scientific Psychology, 6(1), 251–260. doi.org/10.1037/arc0000059

Recommendations for further literature on how societies formerly subjected to European colonization form majority of supposedly 'collectivist' countries?

This guy is good. The only consequences of #socialism and #collectivism are poverty and repressions. And #capitalism brings wellbeing and destroys #poverty. This has so many emprical proofs in 20th and 21st centuries, and still there are those who want to take and divide, to build a "fair" distribution system without realizing that there will be nothing to distribute without the free market. youtube.com/live/Pfcd0gWNIog?s

S01E01. First Contact

Before the Future Came is a podcast that looks at the ideals of Star Trek as we voyage from one episode or film to the next, following a breadcrumb trail of motifs. How is the universe portrayed in Star Trek a truly egalitarian utopia, and how does the world subtly uphold the hegemonic values of our present day?

https://beforethefuture.space/podcast/s01e01-first-contact/