Administered by:
I want to apologize again for the sudden block from mstdn to .art
Some say it's because they where bashing on meta but that's untrue.
The admin was spreading mis information about the discussion that only fueled the fire and not the discussion with knowing any of the facts
If a "user" does this we can handle accordingly but when an admin does this it's getting worrisome
We should not figh each other but rather talk about it like adults, and also I am to blame in this
It won't happen again
@stux@mstdn.socialAnother thing I would like to adres is the death threats against mods and admins in the Fediverse
No matter what you oppion is about the meta discussion, this is not acceptable behaviour and it hurt so damn much
Please try to be civil about this so we can talk and discus this and keep the channels open
But please, stop with making death threats to people. It really has an impact
Let's talk
@stux Did you get death threats, or know of someone specific who got death threats, or is this just, like, shady-ass word games you're playing here
Yes, I know someone who received death threats. Both I and another admin received a video of a poor woman who was beheaded by a bunch of stupid men when we were part of a Fediverse project!
Stupid people who don't know how to talk to others resort to this type of threat. It's so sad to think that there are people here in the #Fediverse capable of such things... I thought we were different but in a good way...
@joaopinheiro @stux I was specifically asking if Stux had received death threats yesterday or the day before as a direct consequence of blocking mastodon.art.
@ifixcoinops here is an example of death threat received by someone almost certainly in relation to the whole meta debate:
https://calckey.social/notes/9g89q9mfyu3sbtgl
@ifixcoinops but that's not what you asked for.
You asked if Stux knows of specific death threats, and implied this is made up. Now you're moving the goal posts. That's just crap, my friend.
Stux did not say he personally got death threats, nor that they came from .art. He mentioned death threats against mods and admins on fedi.
If you can't get yourself to acknowledge that *death threats* are not an acceptable way to react to a conversation, then maybe you have some soul-searching to do.
@rysiek alright, did he or didn't he, and were they from .art users or not, that's what I'm asking.
@ifixcoinops I don't know, and it's immaterial. He did not say that he did, he did not say they came from .art.
I am waiting for you to acknowledge that death threats are not acceptable conduct, on fedi or anywhere else.
@rysiek death threats are not acceptable conduct on fedi or anywhere else
@ifixcoinops glad we can agree on some absolute basics. Sad it took us that long a thread to do so.
@rysiek bet you stux hasn't had any though :P
@ifixcoinops what does this have to do with anything?
And how is this kind of personal jab appropriate here?
@rysiek @ifixcoinops Stux phrased his comments in a way that implies that he had received death threats from the admin or a user of .art, and that this somehow excused or justified his decisions and behaviors.
Perhaps he didn't mean to do this, but his choice of language has consistently shifted the blame for actions he took on to other people.
This, to me, is concerning. I am glad I do not depend on him as an admin.
@ajroach42 I did not read it that way at all. I don't really see how it could be read that way. But if anyone read it that way, the right way to react is first asking if this is what he meant. Not going all "shady-ass games" on the thread, as that only escalates an already very heated situation.
And I think we can all agree that the situation needs to become less heated, pronto.
@rysiek @ifixcoinops indeed.
It's almost as if what happens here is important to people.
@ajroach42 because it is. All the more reason to keep things in perspective, and do our best to de-escalate.
In the end we're all on the same side, even though it's easy to lose sight of that in the heat of the moment.
People might have different approaches to the Meta problem, but when the rubber hits the road, the more fragmented we are, the weaker we are.
And we *can be* undivided even if we have different approaches to the problem at hand.
@rysiek @ifixcoinops oh sure.
And I've long since made my mind up about meta.
What I'm concerned about now is stux's recent behavior towards other admins, and the abusive nature of the language that he employs to defend himself.
(I am assuming stux uses he/him. Stux is suspended from this instance, so I can't check. Please do let me know if I am wrong.)
@ajroach42 @ifixcoinops (I am making te same assumption, no explicit mention of pronouns on the profile)
I've seen abusive language from all directions over the last few days. Stux at least apologized publicly for some of it. Does not make it okay, of course, but it's a step.
People got all sorts of angry, and did all sorts of very unexcellent things. And now we all have to live with the consequences. So I will do my best to push back against any escalation I see. Because we can't afford it.
@rysiek Fair enough. I wish you the best in that.
@ajroach42 thank you.
I hope fedi admins can maybe sit down, off-fedi, and talk stuff out, instead of holding grudges and fragmenting fedi.
I see Stux's apology as a potential first step in that direction. I hope others could to, with time.
But I guess that's just me. 
1) Why do we have to talk out of band?
2) The fediverse is already pretty fragmented, that's part of what makes it work. I'm here to build a community, I'm not here to provide a neutral utility.
I'm trying to make it easier for people to self host, so that conversations like this become less significant.
1.
Because talking in-band seems to only create more fractures.
Because talking in-band ends up talking publicly and with an audience, with all the baggage and egging-on and whatnot that this brings.
Because maybe a change of venue will help break out of some of the assumptions involved in all of this.
2.
Yes fedi is already fragmented. But this feels different.
It feels, sorry to put it so bluntly, like admins holding grudges and acting on them, with communities turning into mobs and cheering and egging them on.
Stux's block of .art is a great, extremely sad example of exactly that. But it did not happen in a vacuum.
It's not about a neutral utility, it's about not acting out mob mentality.
I am not personally accusing you of it, I am saying this how last few days feel like.
@rysiek Sure, tensions are high and people are holding grudges, but I think that it's disingenuous to ignore the facts that
1) Stux, the admin of the instance you're using, instigated a lot of this behavior by agreeing to speak with facebook under an NDA.
2) Stux exacerbated these tensions by acting out against his critics, unilaterally suspending another large instance, and then blaming the admin of that instance. Then repeatedly doubled down on claims that the admin was "nasty" (a term which is often used in sexist contexts).
3) Stux runs some of the largest instances on the fediverse.
It's not like people suddenly just decided to start a fight. They are specifically responding to a difficult, tense situation, and to the poor way one of the people at the center of it handled this tense, difficult situation.
If a smaller instance admin had started this kind of drama, I would have already defederated and moved on with my life.
@rysiek I just reported him for sealioning.
@ifixcoinops of course not. It's baseless fear mongering trying to paint someone he disagrees with as a threat while not technically lying.
Silly word games calculated to turn a community against an individual.
Classic techbro outburst, and I hope he suffers for it.
He's been suspended here. I'm giving his instance a few more days.
@ifixcoinops Well that's a big unfollow there.. 
@stux @ifixcoinops Well, if your reaction is to unfollow them, that answers the question.
@stux
I'm so sorry people would even consider indulging in this level of hostility. It doesn't help anyone. It doesn't do any good.
@stux It really is a shame you were getting death threats. Of the time I've spent on here I've seen almost no one who's vibe would raise those kind of red flags.
My intuition tells me that it is a group of bad actors vilifying the Fediverse... throwing poison into the punchbowl as it were.
I am one of the strongest anti-corp advocates out there, and personally believe Meta has no business here at all.
I know the Admins aren't welcoming them in with open arms... I expect the conversation was more tech/impact based on the current Fediverse.
But Meta's values aren't going to change.
@stux People were making death threats?? That outrageous and they should be reported to police and banned.
@stux@mstdn.social I think an action like this, blocking hundreds of people, should not take place as an admin, because it has a big impact on your user base. However I appreciate that you do apologize for it and even tho I run my own instance, I'd still trust you as an admin. You're running your instance for some time now and you always did a great job. It wasn't a nice move but it happened and you reversed it as good as you could.
Death threads are absolutely stupid (against everyone) and I'd always take legal actions against people actually behaving like that. It's not a joke.
@stux hello. I don't contribute much but I love it here and I really value you.
@stux@mstdn.social there has obviously been some heated discussion of late, by people passionate about fediverse
nothing can justify any threat of violence
hope you are ok
>"Another thing I would like to adres is the death threats against mods and admins in the Fediverse..."
In the US it is against the law to make a credible death threat. As a user, I've had a few and I report them to the FBI. They take that very seriously and you never know what else is going on with someone like that so it is best to report it to the authorities who have the resources to deal with it.
I would be surprised if the Netherlands doesn't have similar laws on that.
@stux Darn! Sending thoughts of love to everyone! 
@stux Jesus, I'm shocked this has lead to death threats. Some people see every single thing in their life as an existential crisis that requires a violent response. It's horrifying.
@stux block them
@stux the whole Meta debacle is running a risk of breaking fedi before they even come onboard.. people are so worried about “embrace expand extinguish” that they’re burning down their own house before Zuck can.
It’s truly crazy.
I’m filtering and muting my own timeline to see if I can chip away at the noise and find that really friendly, welcoming, community we knew just a few months ago.
@wiredfire @stux So some #fediverse admins are as fractious, opinionated, quick-to-overreact, etc., as any other cross-section of humanity. #meta
@stux @stephenesherman
It’s almost like the biggest problem with the internet is that we let people use it 
@stux I understand people have strong opinions about Meta but people really need to take a hard look at those who were threatening people with violence, some of the posts were absolutely horrible.
@NorCal_Lynne @stux death threats or threats of violence should be insta-bans, and instances that don’t moderate them should be defederated.
I hope that’s how it played out 
@stux wtf?? Threats are not acceptable behavior. I'm sorry someone involved with either instance thought it was!! Good grief!! 
@stux death threats? Seriously?
Come on guys, this isn't Twitter. Let's keep it that way.
@surak @stux the meta thing really feels like the “villain of the week” nonsense Twitter was known for..
I get the concerns , I do, but come on.. extending ActivityPub to something Meta will push is amazing. We can offer a hand at last to the “masses” and either walk alongside them or tempt them over to social-good spaces over for-profit.
What a vote of confidence in the technology as well!!
@wiredfire @stux To me the most obvious part is:
We don't know anything yet.
Only that they are developing an app that will speak ActivityPub.
We don't know if it will be implemented completely.
We don't know if they will allow account migration (probably not, and that would be a deal breaker).
So can we please calm the fuck down.
Here's a cookie 
Meta has a twenty year history of malfeasance.
They are requiring people to be bound legally before even talking to them - in a Federated system.
They aren't even pretending to be good guys, now, in the early phases.
Hard pass.
@surak @stux @TomSwirly the NDAs make sense from a business angle, I get that they’re not wanting to show their hand as yet.
I’m more intrigued that they’re wanting to actively engage with some fedi admins.
Either way I’m more interested in having a route for the people who are less technical or otherwise interested enough to have a gateway to decentralised platforms. That is a HUGE opportunity.
@wiredfire @surak @stux The NDAs benefit them, at the expense of us.
A gateway would allow people to leave FB with their data. But that will never happen.
Facebook is a morally evil company. Their goal will be to make as much money from the Fediverse as they can, by any means, honorable or not, and our ethos, our needs, our wants, will be worthless.
Hard no.
@TomSwirly @surak @stux I’m no fan of Facebook, but I *am* a fan of interoperability & removal of barriers.
Facebook opening up to ActivityPub gives *people* more access to participate & interact with fedi. Or at least it would if we weren’t seeing the preemptive blocks.
I’m interested in people and how this could open things up for folk who aren’t technical / in the know enough to “get it”.
Prising open siloed corners of the web to interact outside themselves is also tremendous.
@TomSwirly @surak @stux but I get that you and I are going to disagree on this, and that is absolutely ok.
It’s a big fedi. There’s space for folk and communities to isolate themselves from it and places for those who want to explore how this goes. That’s the beauty of it. We have that choice and the option.
You don't address the actual issue - that Facebook is an evil company.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. We have decades of malfeasance and dishonesty.
Why should we federate with evil rapacious companies?
The moral and ethical questions are the only issues. You can't just ignore them out of existence.
@TomSwirly @surak @stux it’s not that I don’t address the issue, it’s that you and I have differing philosophies on how to approach it.
Which, as I say, is absolutely ok.
@surak the idea that this is somehow fundimentally different from Twitter is an ansinie, albeit attractive, idea. people here just have different motivations.
@stux holy shit man. Im so sorry you went through that. People dont realise you're basically doing volunteering work and out of the kindness of your heart.
Hope you wont have to deal with this kind of people anymore. I wouldnt know how to handle it besides insta-banning them.
Keep doing you, you're doing great!