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Every time I have mentioned the excellent social reading network @bookwyrm, people have replied or messaged asking if there is a film & TV version. I'm not exaggerating, it is every single time, and different people each time.

If there are any developers out there looking for Fediverse ideas, please do a film & TV version of BookWyrm! (More info about BookWyrm here by the way: joinbookwyrm.com)

Film data is (I think) available freely from Wikidata, so that side shouldn't be an issue?

There is demand for a federated film review site, its users are just waiting for it to come into existence.

"If you build it, they will come" :blobcheer:

@feditips We also need one especifically for manga/anime. Since the way that works can clash with normal books/tv shows lol

@joel @feditips The best ones to ask for this are the Japanese Fediverse users. They probably know a free DB to use as a starting point, and if there is none, they're the best ones to start an open DB.

However, I think it's best to make it: "Asian animation and comics" so it includes manhwa and Korean anime. There are also a lot of good ones from mainland China and the diaspora. (And my own, the Philippines.)

@feditips @bookwyrm used to be I would have wanted a video game one! But I don’t get to game as much anymore :-D

@feditips is bookwyrm only for English literature, or are there books in other languagrs too?

@feditips @bookwyrm

Well, @redaktor will support each and every ActivityPub Object type.
The widgets are mostly out there:
github.com/redaktor/widgets-pr but not everything from the 6.200 working hours is yet public [also fedi team at Europes largest publishing house, we need to sort out things and figure out people documenting :)].
We demoed at the meetings.
Please (!) everyone:
Attend next TUE meeting
socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/

Regarding wikidata, the issue were the attributions. These were done in the past days.
But note that software like m. seems to not support as:attributedTo or as:context …
To feed the as:attributedTo in a “liberal” way, we created Relationships. The software can then build multilanguage-summary for 'cheap' software or other can use the full semantic relations.
The underlying vocabulary's ttl maps wikidata but also the Job-descriptors of themoviedb.org and schema etc. but also imdb-api.com is planned.

See redaktor.github.io/vocab/index
1/2

@feditips @bookwyrm @redaktor

Finally, the mediaproxy can also read native image, movie or audio
metadata, e.g. mp4 or EBML / matroska …
So, no matter, if you give it a well known concept of a movie like wikidata or the movie itself, you'll get all out in ActivityPub.

Encouraging everyone to have a look at the Conformance Section of the Specification w3.org/TR/activitypub/#conform
[see “the entirety”] and to support C2S and to attend the meetings.
And to build building-blocks.
We need generic servers and diverse clients.
TUE socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/

@Trent

Hey there, no worries.
We rescheduled it to 24th now and announce in socialhub and
cloud.w3c.social/remote.php/da
I'm sorry that only 4 people attended …

@sl007 No worries. I added it to my calendar and should be there. 😀

@feditips @bookwyrm Trackt.tv uses themoviedb.org as its primary source, with minor edits on their own (from premium users only).

TMDB provides a free API (see: themoviedb.org/documentation/a and developers.themoviedb.org/3/ge ) as long as attribution is given. Their DB is basically crowdsourced and then updates are then pulled by various other services like trackt.tv.

It could be a good start. ^^

@youronlyone @bookwyrm

I'm not sure if relying on TMDB is a good idea, as it's owned by a commercial company? Whatever promises they make now might be broken if it went against their financial interests?

(IMDB was originally crowdsourced, by the way)

If I understand correctly, the advantage of Wikidata is the data won't be suddenly withdrawn.

@feditips @bookwyrm Yep, it's not. It's going to be a big risk especially since their Terms state that they reserve the right to terminate access.

Haven't read it in full, not sure if they if they do terminate, they'll also require to delete copies of their db (maybe that's the case).

@feditips @bookwyrm The problem I have with wikidata is it's not managed well. Lots of missing and incorrect data. If something is not "notable" enough for them = deleted. And, they block VPN logins even if you're an old user.

As much as I want to update their entries, forcing me to disconnect from VPN is a big no no for me these days.

@youronlyone @bookwyrm

Okay, sounds tricky :(

Interesting to hear the the insights on it.

Might be ok as a "least worst" option perhaps?

@feditips @bookwyrm Putting it that way, yeah.

Long-term, it's probably better if someone starts an FreeDB/OpenDB database for movies and tv, just like how musicbrainz provides for music.

The challenge with these services is populating their data, and users today expects to find what they want instead of submitting new entries. Many are willing to update but few cares to submit.

@feditips @bookwyrm I think the musicbrainz flow works. There are certain information where a gatekeeper is needed, or a vote from the community. And then there are those that are immediately applied.

If someone understands how it all works, maybe something like it can be made for movies/tv and everything else.

Earlier movies/tv dbs faced that problem, everything goes through their checkers.

@youronlyone @bookwyrm

It's interesting to hear that, as I think BookWyrm collaborated with @inventaire on the book data, rather than just taking straight from wikidata?

@feditips @bookwyrm @inventaire Yep. Musicbrainz was similar, used an old open DB and built on top of it.

We need an Inventaire for anime, manga, manhwa, movies, tv DBs.

@youronlyone @feditips @bookwyrm note that manga and manhwa are already part of #inventaireio bibliographic database :)

@youronlyone @feditips @bookwyrm also, our case is a bit different from Musicbrainz in the sense that we are not diverging from Wikidata: it's not a database fork, "simply" an extension, as Wikidata is still very much alive

@feditips @bookwyrm

Here's another question: do we have something similar for music? Musicbrainz.org DB is a very good source and most of their data are under #CC0 / #PublicDomain. (see: musicbrainz.org/doc/About and musicbrainz.org/doc/About/Data )

There is also discogs.com, they provide an API for their DB (although I find them lacking data for non-Western artists; musicbrainz is still most complete even if compared to wikidata).

^_^

@feditips I'm new to the Fediverse and a voracious reader, and would love to join this instance, but it says registration is closed? Is that temporary? I tried to join wyrms.de, but the instance doesn't show up on apps (isn't "official" the error messages keep saying) and the feed in a browser doesn't work, so I think it must be broken somehow.

@hollie

The first server was bookwyrm.social and is run by the lead developer of BookWyrm.

I think they don't want everyone on one server, because the whole point of a federated network is to spread the load across many servers. So, they often close the main server in order to encourage people onto the smaller ones.

Which app are you trying to use BookWyrm through by the way?

@feditips I'm using the Toot! app on my iPad and iPhone, and when I search for both bookwyrm.social and wyrms.de, nothing comes up.

The thing I'm really confused about is that I requested an invite to wyrms.de and got one (yay!) and I am able to log into that via Safari, but then I can't see anything in my feed, as though there is neither a federated nor local feed.....maybe I'm misunderstanding how this works? This is all new to me so I apologize if this is obvious! :)

@feditips More data that's possibly useful: I just tried to find either bookwym.social or wyrms.de on the other two iOS apps Mastadon and Mast, and neither app could find them.

Using Safari, if I go to wyrms.de, and click on "lists" and try to access any of those, it just times out. It's as though the site exists but isn't living, somehow?

@hollie

Hmm... it shouldn't be timing out I don't think... 🤔

Maybe you could drop an email to the admin of wyrms.de, to check if they have any maintenance or something? According to the server's contact link it's librarian@wyrms.de

@hollie

No need for apologies, this is all very new!

I don't think you can use Mastodon apps with BookWyrm accounts, I think you can only sign into BookWyrm accounts through the server's website?

You can follow and interact with BookWyrm accounts from your Mastodon app using your Mastodon account, though.

Does the wyrms.de account work okay, but the feed is empty? Sort of like when you first joined Mastodon? It might be you need to follow some BookWyrm accounts?

@feditips Yep, it's like I can log in, but then there is no local feed. So I can't see anyone to join! :)

When I joined weirder.earth, even before following anyone I was able to see the local instance feed (and the federated feed), is that not the same on wyrms.de?

Oh hey, is Bookwyrm a different beast than Mastodon? Maybe that's where I'm confused. Is there no federated/local feed at all?

I'll email the admin and ask why all the links/lists go to 504 errors.

@feditips Oh sorry I meant, I can't see anyone to follow (not "join"). There's no local feed, so I can't see other members at all.

@hollie

BookWyrm is totally different software, yes!

But error messages do sound like something is broken, so the admin would be best person to ask?

@feditips
Maybe, rather than something specifically directed at TV, movies, mangas, video-games, scientific papers or anything alse, what we really need is something with the features of @bookwyrm but that is agnostic about the medium.

A related project probably worth following is @inventaire , whose data model based on wikidata looks interesting, and who clearly state on their site that books is just a start. This is not all of it I think as there are also entities (I thin specifically about papers) not significant enough to have a wikidata page

One silly thought : maybe those two platforms becoming interoperable will be a huge step in that direction, because of bookwyrm's targeted features and inventaire's built in data diversity. I fact I use neither atm so I wouldn't know, is there already some talking happening?

@liwott @inventaire @bookwyrm

My understanding is BookWyrm's data was the product of a collaboration with Inventaire.

By the way, Inventaire has federation now too, it's not very well known about but it works:

mstdn.social/@feditips/1074075

@liwott @feditips @bookwyrm different kinds of interoperability are possible:
- bookwyrm already pulls bibliographic data from inventaire
- there could be user data importers/exporters in both directions, see github.com/bookwyrm-social/boo
- we could also imagine showing activitypub activities: that would require work mostly on inventaire's side to figure out how that could work with what bookwyrm is already doing

@inventaire @feditips @bookwyrm
Thanks for your answers. Maybe I would like to ask a couple of questions. Note that my point of view is a potential user's one, not a dev's one. In particular most of those question may come out as naive.
First an apology, I feel like
This is not all of it I think as there are also entities (...) not significant enough to have a wikidata page
was not appropriate as I seem to understand that your entities are not links to wiki but built on top of it.
  • biblio data is fetched in bookwyrm from inventaire but not vice-versa, is it that inventaire cannot fetch or bookwyrm cannot send?
  • is inventaire's database central or can different instances with different databases talk to each other?
  • what do they do about conflicts? Do they correct each other in some way?
  • can one import data from bibtex files?
  • I understand that book is just the starting point towards a more general inventaire (which is exactly why I mentioned you in this discussion). How dedicated to books is to current implementation? Like could one create an inventaire instance with little to no change and start encoding movie data ?

@liwott @feditips @bookwyrm ah yes, sorry, I too easily assume that everybody on mastodon is a developer 😅

As bookwyrm fetches biblio data from different sources such as openlibrary and inventaire, it probably makes more sense to fetch data directly from those sources (which we are already doing in some cases for openlibrary) rather than fetching from bookwyrm instances themselves, but we haven't really looked into it.

@liwott @feditips @bookwyrm
The current inventaire code is quite strongly coupled with the books use-case. The claim that we are just "starting with books" was first made in 2015, when we were young and naive ;) It is still of interest to explore other types of resources, but we can't promise anything at the moment.

@inventaire @feditips @bookwyrm

Thanks again !
ah yes, sorry, I too easily assume that everybody on mastodon is a developer 😅
Oops, sorry if it made it seem like your previous answer was not clear, this is not the case at all ! 😀 This disclaimer was more in prevision because my questions can be read in a more technical fashion.

@feditips how about raising money and hire someone to work on it instead if waiting for someone to spend their whole spare time on such a project? :)

@gcrkrause

If a developer (or maybe an org like Framasoft etc) started raising funds to do that, I would definitely donate.

I'd be the wrong person to raise money as I am not a developer or programmer 😔

@feditips But you have reach to get people on board who are interested and before starting development a lot of non dev work is needed to develop an idea of what the platform should do.

@gcrkrause

Sure, but I have no track record in running a software project, so I am not the right person to be raising funds for software development.

If someone else starts such an initiative, I'm happy to promote it, but I can't be the one leading it as I have no expertise in the field.

@feditips At first, my reply wasn't meant offensive or anything. I don't want to make you do things you are not comfortable with.

But to explain my position: You are calling for devs, and in the same sense you could also call for people writing down their ideas, people organizing a collection of money or whatever. Such projects require devs, but thats not the only thing and only devs probably would make this project fail.

@gcrkrause

Ahh, ok, now I understand.

Yes, you're right, I should have said anyone with experience of creating/leading software projects rather than saying developers specifically.

Apologies, that's a good point!

@feditips@mstdn.social @bookwyrm@tech.lgbt so like..
"do you like this film [insert title]?"

@feditips Perhaps ratings and reviews could be implemented as CRDT instead of being controlled by a single org? IMDB was originally crowd-sourced, so that trick can be pulled again, but this time in a different (decentralized) way.

@feditips Also at some point the question may come up how to review content if one can't access it.

@feditips @bookwyrm why would we need specific services per thing we need to track?
A decentralized version of #worldcat might be better
worldcat.org/

One to track them all would allow making connections between the novels and the film adaptations, the soundtracks, the fan fictions, etc.

Then you don't need to create an account to track your anime, another one to track your books, another one to track your series, etc.

Of course, if nomadic identities and auth existed...

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