@khm Sorry to say that but opensource software heavily NEEDS usable user data. We're so far behind that there isnt even a competition, mostly because much dev work is spend on things nobody cares instead of going in a direction where the user expects it to go. Asking for users to give feedback doesnt work, as you want to have data from the average user, not the with-opensource-involved-nerd.

@fabiscafe @khm Sure, but there are ways to do this without screwing over the Audacity community.

@fabiscafe @khm
To start:
- Not banning it for under 13
- Making it completely opt-in
- Writing a privacy policy that's biased toward the user, is extremely specific about what the data can be used for, and collects no more than is absolutely necessary

@josias @khm
You havent got the point :(
1. it's not banned for <13yo, it's legally saved for Audacity not get sued for receiving data of <13yo, because they arent the ones to blame.
2. opt-in is useless. You wont get any usefull data. enabled by default, yet asked to disable on first startup is a sane option
3. "no more than is absolutely necessary" is another wishywashy. Everything is necessary to improve product quality.

@josias @khm
I can understand that you dont want this. Still this is essential to create a future for a project, to compete in the market. You cant just guess, you cant just ask nicely and wait for some of them to give feedback. You want to know your audience to grow your project.

@fabiscafe @khm
My main concern is this:
If developers and users were in charge of the development of Audacity, they could make their own choices that would likely be made for the best-interests of the community. I trust them more with coming up with a privacy policy and telemetry scheme than MuseGroup, which is using their generic policy and hoping everyone ignores the consequences.

Those who use the software should make such decisions, or at least have a strong voice in the matter, not those who happen to "own" it.

Yes, I know telemetry is a method of determining what people want. But that's not enough to decide how much telemetry itself people actually want or need.

There's a cost, and a balance must be made. MuseGroup will primarily act in their own self-interest (as is natural according to free market principles), so they shouldn't be trusted to make the best decision in this matter.

@josias @khm
Fully agree with you. The thing is, when it comes to telemetry, and especially in the linux community there is no talk, no clear technical or logical reasoning. The community instantly goes full emotional mode and screams "FORK!" and whatever.

You can hope that you have some people in the dev team who look at both sides and start a quality discussion, while ignoring all the loud noises around. TBH I couldn't do that.

@fabiscafe Audacity has been working fine for long without telemetry, it is definitely NOT essential.

@workingsea to grow and stay competitive i can't think of anything else. How would you do interface refreshes, optimizations to the workflow or simply cleanups without knowing your general audience?

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